Naruto Shippuden (Japanese)

[CloudStrife911]

I've been watching it and I'm finally back up to date. It amazes me that even in this point in the series I still am sitting here thinking, "Holy crap, I can't believe that just happened!". Ahhh, I love this anime so much.

[R86]

I'm way behind you, recently watched episode 120 in fact, but I too hope to catch up sometime. I'm aiming to do so by the end of the summer, but will settle for sometime before I'm 60.

Episodes 119-120 are about a young Kakashi when he had just made jounin. I figured it would just be two episodes of mindless filler, and I'd maybe get to find out what was under his mask for real this time. I was wrong on both counts. I will stop here as I don't want to spoil anything, but I thought the two episodes were compelling and extremely well done.

Not that I'm the hugest Naruto fan by any stretch. I am trying to get caught up on Bleach at the same time, and often find myself wondering about the ways in which one show is better than the other (or not). But in the end, I figure there has to be a reason Naruto has run for as long as it has (and Bleach too for that matter), and once I saw it was legally possible for me to catch up on both shows, I figured I'd better do so as soon as I could, or I'd be missing out.

[TopazRaven]

Oh man, I'm not even caught up on the first Naruto. I'm so far behind I've considered just giving up on it. I have seen one or two Shippuden episodes though. So far I really like Sai. xD

[CloudStrife911]

Awww man you can't give up it's such a great series! I really suggest catching up. It's really great especially right now. It makes me sad because I don't know anyone else who is as far as I am right now. It's so crazy not being able to tell anyone.

[Atria35]

You can totally give it up because it's not a great series. Seriously, they could just blow up the world right now, they're so powerful. And yet there's still more powerups.

[R86]

Might as well keep your options open, especially since both the original and the Shippuuden series seem available at the moment. Think of it this way, you are probably no worse off in Naruto than I am in Bleach, having not too long ago watched episode 100!

Sai has not made a big impression on me either way so far, apart from his jutsu, which is made of win. I will say that I miss Shikamaru lately, as he's my favorite male character. Though I guess he played a major role in a recent arc, but I can hardly remember as it was about 2-3 years ago when I saw it. I've seen a fair bit of Ino lately -- she was my favorite female character, but Hinata is threatening to take over that position.

At least I still remember all the characters. Watching Bleach after such a long hiatus is, shall we say, educational. So many shinigami! So many captains! So many other weird uncategorized people! And they all have this annoying habit of acting like I should know them!

[TopazRaven]

Awww man you can't give up it's such a great series! I really suggest catching up. It's really great especially right now. It makes me sad because I don't know anyone else who is as far as I am right now. It's so crazy not being able to tell anyone.

Might as well keep your options open, especially since both the original and the Shippuuden series seem available at the moment. Think of it this way, you are probably no worse off in Naruto than I am in Bleach, having not too long ago watched episode 100!

Sai has not made a big impression on me either way so far, apart from his jutsu, which is made of win. I will say that I miss Shikamaru lately, as he's my favorite male character. Though I guess he played a major role in a recent arc, but I can hardly remember as it was about 2-3 years ago when I saw it. I've seen a fair bit of Ino lately -- she was my favorite female character, but Hinata is threatening to take over that position.

At least I still remember all the characters. Watching Bleach after such a long hiatus is, shall we say, educational. So many shinigami! So many captains! So many other weird uncategorized people! And they all have this annoying habit of acting like I should know them!

Good points! Though I am usually put off if something is over like 300 episodes. xD I don't have the patiance to sit and watch it all.

[Hiryu]

^ And still climbing. The manga could go on forever if it wanted to.

Episodes 119-120 are about a young Kakashi when he had just made jounin. I figured it would just be two episodes of mindless filler, and I'd maybe get to find out what was under his mask for real this time. I was wrong on both counts. I will stop here as I don't want to spoil anything, but I thought the two episodes were compelling and extremely well done.

Nope, no filler here. It was in the manga before they jumped to part 2.

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

Naruto isn't worth it. I still have some nostalgia for the first two arcs, and it has some genuinely good moments after that, but it basically goes like this:
Opening Arc/Land of Waves arc - 8/10
Chunin Exams arc - 7/10
Search for Tsunade arc - 6/10
Hunt for Sasuke arc - 5/10
Opening of Shippuden/Rescue of Gaara arc - 6/10
Sai arc - 2/10
Hidan and Kakuzu - 7/10
And then the next arc goes on to actually lower the quality of the past good arcs to the point where you wish it had been tragically cancelled at four volumes. After that is gets even worse.

[CloudStrife911]

I do agree that the original series honestly wasn't that great, but Shippuden is very much worth it.

[Lilac#18]

[color="Plum"]I love Shippuden. I'm on the 208th episode now.[/color]

[Maokun]

Oh man, I'm not even caught up on the first Naruto. I'm so far behind I've considered just giving up on it. I have seen one or two Shippuden episodes though. So far I really like Sai. xD

Don't worry, you can skip safely almost the last 100 episodes of the original series as it's all filler and very little of it is any good. If what's left still seems daunting, get your hands in the manga: you'll advance in a few hours what would take days of anime watching.

You can totally give it up because it's not a great series. Seriously, they could just blow up the world right now, they're so powerful. And yet there's still more powerups.

Maybe you're thinking of Dragon Ball? Seriously, I understand if you don't like the series, but giving a scornful but disinformed opinion only makes you look bad.

Naruto isn't worth it. I still have some nostalgia for the first two arcs, and it has some genuinely good moments after that, but it basically goes like this:
Opening Arc/Land of Waves arc - 8/10
Chunin Exams arc - 7/10
Search for Tsunade arc - 6/10
Hunt for Sasuke arc - 5/10
Opening of Shippuden/Rescue of Gaara arc - 6/10
Sai arc - 2/10
Hidan and Kakuzu - 7/10
And then the next arc goes on to actually lower the quality of the past good arcs to the point where you wish it had been tragically cancelled at four volumes. After that is gets even worse.

Really? I know that the Taka arc was really boring and the current arc is not that great, but Pain arc was really good IMHO. For me it's something like this:

Initial Arc/Haku & Zabuza 9/10
Chuunin exams 7/10
Chuunin finals/Gaara 9/10
Search for Tsunade 6/10
The hunt for Sasuke 8/10
First shippuuden arc/Sasori 5/10 (The fight against sasori was great but the rest was awful)
Sai arc 3/10
Hidan and Kakuzu 6/10
Sasuke vs two main antagonists (to avoid spoilers) 8/10
Taka arc 2/10
Pain arc 9/10
Five Kage arc 4/10

So yeah, shippuuden has been overall inferior than the first series but it still has great moments worthy of its origins.

[MrKrillz0r]

I love Naruto, and I think the series is just getting better and better.

[CloudStrife911]

I love Shippuden. I'm on the 208th episode now.

Same here, the new one will be released (at least on the site i watch it on) tomorrow at 3 am!

[aliveinHim]

I'm a huge Narutard. I liked Part 1 more than Shippuden because I think that it was funnier. Idk why I'm not as big into it as I should be.

[CloudStrife911]

I'm a huge Narutard. I liked Part 1 more than Shippuden because I think that it was funnier. Idk why I'm not as big into it as I should be.

Well, If you liked the first one better because it was funnier that would make sense because Shippuden is much more serious in nature. From what I've noticed they have tried to mature the show as the audience matured. So, because of that the show has become less whimsical and more story driven.

[rocklobster]

I'm still watching, although I've fallen a little behind. You'll never see me stop.

[Maokun]

My main gripe with Shippuuden, when comparing it to the first series is that Naruto, as he grew up, actually lost depth of character. 14 year old naruto had a lot more of spunk, which was contrasted to his underdog status. Being a reckless moron with a feeble grasp on the fighting arts that almost everyone else dominated, forced him to push through by innovative mixing of the few things he could do well, and tons of guts and emotion (which were rewarded occasionally with the deus ex machine device of the "demon inside".) At the end, he really managed to sell you on his stupid philosophy.

17 year old Naruto is a caricature of the spunky, stupid kid without retaining the good qualities that made it work, now just looking awkward for his age. He no longer is creative with his techniques or surprise people with his insight, he simply gets more powerful. However, much of that was fixed in the Pain arc, with the good character development he experienced after the death of certain other character and the fight with Pain himself resembled much more the good fights of his younger self than all the others before. It really restored my faith on the series.

As I write this I wonder if it was all intentional. After all, most other characters of his age matured more appropriately both in mind and fighting technique while naruto remained awkwardly childlike, except more prompt to angst and anger. After all, he spent those three years traveling with the father figure he never had, regaining a bit of his lost childhood. Only after being confronted with loss and facing the responsibilities and realities of becoming an adult, his stunted character was forced to grow.

[Yamamaya]

I read through the manga chapters that cover the first anime series. Haven't really got into Shippuden yet.

I didn't find the series horrible, but it wasn't fantastic either.

[CloudStrife911]

My main gripe with Shippuuden, when comparing it to the first series is that Naruto, as he grew up, actually lost depth of character. 14 year old naruto had a lot more of spunk, which was contrasted to his underdog status. Being a reckless moron with a feeble grasp on the fighting arts that almost everyone else dominated, forced him to push through by innovative mixing of the few things he could do well, and tons of guts and emotion (which were rewarded occasionally with the deus ex machine device of the "demon inside".) At the end, he really managed to sell you on his stupid philosophy.

17 year old Naruto is a caricature of the spunky, stupid kid without retaining the good qualities that made it work, now just looking awkward for his age. He no longer is creative with his techniques or surprise people with his insight, he simply gets more powerful. However, much of that was fixed in the Pain arc, with the good character development he experienced after the death of certain other character and the fight with Pain himself resembled much more the good fights of his younger self than all the others before. It really restored my faith on the series.

As I write this I wonder if it was all intentional. After all, most other characters of his age matured more appropriately both in mind and fighting technique while naruto remained awkwardly childlike, except more prompt to angst and anger. After all, he spent those three years traveling with the father figure he never had, regaining a bit of his lost childhood. Only after being confronted with loss and facing the responsibilities and realities of becoming an adult, his stunted character was forced to grow.

1st off awesome analysis. 2nd off I agree with everything you said, but at the same time I do think naurto did mature also just not as much as everyone. With that contrast it can be hard to notice since it is very miniscule.

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

All right, for starters I'll break into the first problem with post-Hidan and Kakuzu Naruto. This post may contain spoilers.

When Naruto starts out, it's the story of this bratty kid who just wants people to pay attention to him. He's pretty annoying, but he also is someone you can root for after a little time getting used to him. During the Land of Waves arc, we see this kid who has been glamorizing the ninja life see firsthand that actual combat kills people and is not something to glamorize.

Now, as he returns home, we can see some difference in him. He's beginning to mature, if only by a little, and even though he's still this bratty kid he understands how serious this is. He's beginning to develop his own philosophy and is forming bonds with his teammates, actual bonds not simply brought about by a friendship speech.

It is here that we meet vile Orochimaru, the traitor to his home and country, the one who places a deadly curse on his friend. Orochimaru obviously has grand goals in mind, for he is one of the Legendary Sages! This is not a petty man who harasses small countries for money, nay, this is someone of power who desires something more. This is the man who plans such an assault on Naruto's home and leaves many dead, including the wise Hokage that has been a mentor and, if I may so so, friend to our hero.

Following this, Naruto aids his teacher in finding a new Hokage, and again meets Orochimaru in combat. Here, he finally grasps how powerful a warrior this foe is, a man who can challenge the other two Legendary Sages in combat without the use of his arms and prevail, with only one follower at his command.

Now, Orochimaru again strikes, sending four of his loyal minions to take the boy who had become a brother to Naruto, stealing him away after offering him power.

Anyways, I don't really need to do that much more summarizing, but you get the idea. Orochimaru is pretty obviously the big bad of this story, and one we've spent about twenty-four volumes building up as the big bad. Except he isn't. Kishimoto, after having built him up as this major antagonist casually kills him twice just to show off how powerful Sasuke has become. This is someone we've been rooting against the entire series, and he gets a bridge dropped on him? Compare this to our current antagonists. Pain apparently is killing thousands of people for a utopia but gets a friendship speech from Naruto and wastes his entire arc. He could pretty much be removed from the story and it wouldn't be that different aside from the length. Danzo? Killed by Sasuke before he really got a chance to shine. Madara? What has he done, really, and what kind of connection does Naruto really have to this guy? Sasuke? I hope not. The other members of the Akatsuki aside from Hidan are pretty weak too, they don't even make good side villains.

[Maokun]

Spoilers ahead as well

Ah, I think I see where your chagrin comes from. I also thought that Orochimaru's demise was a bit too casual. But I believe Orochimaru was never intended to be the main baddy. He was just the plot device that catalyzed what the series is and always has been about, the brotherhood/rivalry between Naruto and Sasuke.

He needed to be powerful and bad, he needed to be antagonizing if he were to fully be able to drag Sasuke down the dark road. Then the series came to the point of "graduation": the legendary sennin were no longer the bar against to measure the main characters. That's why Pain dealt with two of them while Sasuke dealt with Orochimaru. Pain himself was not intended to be a main villain either, but rather, Naruto's Orochimaru.

Then we came to learn that Madara was truly the main villain: he basically orchestrated all the events in the series and besides him or even besides Itachi, Orochimaru was just a greedy fool meddling in their business. Moreover, even after his demise, Orochimaru still represents a threat in the form of Kabuto and I get the feeling we still haven't seen Orochimaru's last trick.

That said, I didn't think too highly of Hidan myself; Deidara was a much better antagonist among Akatsuki IMHO. (Not to mention Itachi.)

[Atria35]

^ THe problem is that they keep on bringing new and more dangerous villians- but can't be bothered to make us care about them or the threat they represent other than the 'he can destroy the village!' threat. There's nothing else there.

Even if we haven't seen the last of Oorochimaru or Kabuto, for those two the backstory and history were powerful and dangerous.

The rest? No different from any other villian that Naruto has come across. They were just more powerful. They failed to distinguish themselves in backstory, and I couldn't have cared less. It was moving the first time, not the fifth.

And yet, that's who we were supposed to hate and fear during the Shuppuden arcs. Pain may have been Naruto's Oorochimaru, but it failed to be compelling on any level.

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

^ THe problem is that they keep on bringing new and more dangerous villians- but can't be bothered to make us care about them or the threat they represent other than the 'he can destroy the village!' threat. There's nothing else there.

Even if we haven't seen the last of Oorochimaru or Kabuto, for those two the backstory and history were powerful and dangerous.

The rest? No different from any other villian that Naruto has come across. They were just more powerful. They failed to distinguish themselves in backstory, and I couldn't have cared less. It was moving the first time, not the fifth.

And yet, that's who we were supposed to hate and fear during the Shuppuden arcs. Pain may have been Naruto's Oorochimaru, but it failed to be compelling on any level.

This post, oh so much. Madara may be the main villain as of now, but that doesn't necessarily make good writing. Heck, we could be going along for a while and have Kakashi kill Madara only to reveal he's been manipulating them all the entire time. It would be stupid but it could happen and you could say we have now learned that Kakashi was always the true villain.

It's kind of funny that you've told Atria off for saying that their power hasn't grown out-of-proportion but you've justified that completely omitting Orochimaru from the plot because it's revealed he isn't as powerful as the new villains, when previously he was hyped to be incredibly dangerous and powerful.

See, that's why Hidan is the only actually compelling member of the Akatsuki. As opposed to Deidara, Sasori, or Kakuzu, he managed to have a connection to the person he fought. His arc actually brought about a believable change in Shikamaru as he saw his own mentor struck down, he himself unable to stop the man doing the deed. Shikamaru and Hidan's fight had something more than just some neat moves or whatever, it actually had a connection between the two.

Compare that to the fight between Kakuzu and everyone else. Even though it had many more flashy moves and stuff, it wasn't the same because they didn't care about Kakuzu. He was this villain who had committed crimes they didn't know about. He was a Bad Guy To Be Killed, and he was killed.

Madara may be behind this entire story but I don't have a reason to care about or hate him.

[Maokun]

I have to say that you guys give way too much credit to Orochimaru. Yes, I acknowledge he was a great antagonist for long time and that his destruction seemed perhaps hurried and anticlimactic (though I insist he's not totally out of the picture yet. At this point I'm almost expecting it will be a redeeming comeback a la Gollum.)

However, he's not and never was the ultimate villain you wanted him to be. Since very early, he stated he was afraid of Itachi -read, we learn that there was someone more powerful and perhaps more evil than him (after all, Orochimaru's body count pales at the side of Itachi's or most of the other members of Akatsuki.) Then we learn that Itachi is simply a member from an organization of people with powers similar to his own, under the command of a leader (at that point believed to be Pain) even more powerful. My point here is that from very early on it was shown that Orochimaru wasn't a main villain. That might not be amazing writing but I don't see how it's worse than always keeping the same villain from the beginning until the predictable end as it seems that you guys would have liked it.

I want to stress again my main point: the legendary sennin were there to be both a backdrop and a maturity/power bar for Naruto and Sasuke (and Sakura, I guess) as well as a mean to establish and continue their rivalry. They left the picture the moment it was necessary for the new legends to step in. This is important; even though Orochimaru was in antagonistic role he was always at the same level than the other two (You mentioned that he was able to contain the other two at the same time even being armless, but you failed to mention that Jiraiya was drugged and Tsunade paralyzed by her fear of blood; the moment one of them got better, she dealt hummiliatingly easy with him.)

Now you explain how Hidan was a compelling character and I completely agree with you. I also agree that Kakuzu was boring and uninteresting. But why would you dismiss Deidara? His personality got much more exposure and his deeds were fairly more relevant. He defeated Gaara, battled Kakashi and Naruto in almost level power, captured the three tails and because his stupid philosophy, went in a suicidal mission to kill Sasuke, who only survived miraculously.

And at that, how can you praise Hidan and scoff Pain? He killed Jiraiya and Kakashi, he destroyed Konoha and lots of its inhabitants, he commanded Akatsuki in all their evil deeds (if instructed by Madara.) We even got a long look at his backstory and a explanation of his philosophy. And no, he didn't get a friendly chat from Naruto. Naruto especifically told him that he was not forgiving him and it was quite obvious that at that point he could have easily killed him if he wanted. But it was his chance to test his newfound maturity, to put an end to the cycle of violence. This was a similar, if somewhat opposite effect than the one Hidan had on Shikamaru.

I'd dare say that even with less exposure, Pain was better fleshed out than Orochimaru who was little more than a caricature of ill-aimed ambition and cruelty and whose list of accomplishments really leave much to be desired: others destroyed dozens of lives and even whole villages, but Orochimaru kidnapped one sulky dude! *gasp*

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

I'm surprised you can praise Pain's arc at all, given the ending. I might be able to respect him a little bit more if he didn't end by going "Oh lol jay/kay" and bring all the people he'd killed back to life. That really cheapens a lot of crap when we've seen Kakashi, Shizune, and Hinata seemingly killed and they all come back at the end(oh, and the one frog). Aside from killing Jiraiya, he didn't really end up doing anything. Also, I think we get it by now, the villains are like Naruto. We get it Kishimoto. We get it.

I can't see how Orochimaru wasn't supposed to be the main antagonist, though. This was the man who opposed our heroes at every turn, the very traitor who they now needed to stop from taking what they held dear, their precious people. Even if he isn't, we should have some foreshadowing that this guy is really minor in the grand scheme of things, but the entirety of part one hyped him up and with good reason. He killed the Kazekage, one of the supposedly five greatest warriors alive! He killed the Hokage, the mentor to an entire village and their guardian. He struck Konoha a greater blow than Pain ever did.

But now he's axed for completely new villains. Deidara what? Deidara attacks Gaara because Pain told him to and he works for Akatsuki. The sole setback he ends up causing Naruto is the death of a character introduced in that very arc, quite possibly for that very purpose. Then, not only does he not end up fighting Naruto, but he tries to kill Sasuke because Itachi is a jerk? Sasuke at this point is someone I don't really care about, so two dudes I don't care about duking it out because they both hate one guy's brother isn't the height of drama.

Also, you're forgetting that Orochimaru lacked his arms, so it's not like they were the only ones with handicaps.

You say it's more predictable for Orochimaru to be the villain, but while good plot twists aid a story, I don't understand why it's better to just throw in a new villain. Madara has no foreshadowing to suggest he's been behind any of this and just shows up. That is bad writing. Compare(MAJOR FMA SPOILERS WHICH IS ACTUALLY GOOD) Selim Bradley/Pride, who is revealed to be a new villain and more powerful than many of the other antagonists. However, Arakawa had it planned out that Selim was Pride the entire time, and dropped subtle hints the entire time that he was not to be taken as an unimportant side character.

Let's say, in the middle of FMA, Arakawa had three new homunculi named Pain, Torture, and Disease show up and start being the main people our heroes fought. They showed up and despite taking the limelight, were killed and replaced by new villains. They randomly came out of nowhere and left randomly.

You mention that Orochimaru(and by extension, Jiraiya and Tsunade) needed to set a bar for our younger generation to reach and surpass. I'd agree with this, but this should be where you end the series. Naruto's theme is that the new generation will build on and eventually surpass the accomplishments of the younger generation. What better way to build to that by having Naruto end by eventually surpassing what was once the greatest of Shinobi, so renowned for their talent that they earned the name of Legendary Sages.

I have to go now, so more on this later.

[Maokun]

I have to say I didn't have much of a problem with Pain's redemption. All the characters he killed, actually died and while they were dead, the emotional impact was tremendous; also, since it's not dragonball, we had no idea that they could be revived and it turned to be a nice surprise. The only thing that actually irked me is that he did NOT kill Hinata, especially taking in account she would have been revived shortly after. Having her willingly sacrifice herself to protect Naruto and being easily dispatched by a merciless Pain, lost much of its effect when you could see her get up almost nonchalantly, a couple of scenes later.

As for Deidara, I have to say that you seem to think that the depth of a villain character can only be measured by the emotional impact caused by their deeds in other characters, hence your appreciation for Hidan (and here I wonder, why not for Pain as well? Jiraiya's death was much more dramatic Nd affected more people than Asuma's.) Deidara might have not had such impact -and I'm with you in your disregard for Sasuke- but he was much more fleshed out than most other members of the akatsuki. We saw him in good and bad spirits, saw him triumph and be defeated, saw him be a subordinate and be a leader, saw his motivations, learned of his philosophy and observed him throwing his life away wastefully for it. In some ways, he was even better fleshed out than Orochimaru.

As for Orochimaru and the legendary sennin, you cannot have really expect the series to end when their pupils overpassed them, when from the very beginning the goal was set much higher: reaching Kage level.

(I'm sorry I skipped the FMA analogy because I actually haven't seen it, but I intend to and don't want to get spoiled )

[Vega]

Was anybody freaked out by Danzo's arm in episode 208?

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

I have to say I didn't have much of a problem with Pain's redemption. All the characters he killed, actually died and while they were dead, the emotional impact was tremendous]That's what makes it even cheaper, previously, it took the death of a great master to bring back a single person. Now, though, this guy can bring back hundreds of people *after* having fought and killed a ton of people and having a huge battle against several of the most powerful people in the world. While I don't think it was as bad, it's like how the Sasuke Retrieval arc had these dramatic, excellent death scenes only to miraculously have the people come back. Chouji and Neji's fights during that had a lot more of an impact when they were about the sacrifice they were making. Then, to just bring them back really weakens the scene because it means they have no consequences for what they do. The pill will cost them their lives, only it doesn't.

As for Deidara, I have to say that you seem to think that the depth of a villain character can only be measured by the emotional impact caused by their deeds in other characters, hence your appreciation for Hidan (and here I wonder, why not for Pain as well? Jiraiya's death was much more dramatic Nd affected more people than Asuma's.) Deidara might have not had such impact -and I'm with you in your disregard for Sasuke- but he was much more fleshed out than most other members of the akatsuki. We saw him in good and bad spirits, saw him triumph and be defeated, saw him be a subordinate and be a leader, saw his motivations, learned of his philosophy and observed him throwing his life away wastefully for it. In some ways, he was even better fleshed out than Orochimaru.

I will conceed that Deidara may have been good, as I never actually got that far before giving up on the manga. I've read enough of the Pain arc to know what I'm talking about, but I gave up following it by the arc about Sasuke.

As for Orochimaru and the legendary sennin, you cannot have really expect the series to end when their pupils overpassed them, when from the very beginning the goal was set much higher: reaching Kage level.

Actually, this is kind of where you begin to lose the argument. The Sennin are established from the beginning to at least be on par with the Kage, as seen where the Third isn't able to kill Orochimaru and they search for Tsunade after Jiraiya refuses the position. They are all shown to be the strongest people alive for many, many chapters until recently they were bumped way down in favor of new villains. Why shouldn't Orochimaru set the bar for the strength of his generation? The theme of Naruto from the beginning has been that the newer generation builds upon the accomplishments of the old and in turn is built upon by the new. By having Orochimaru set the bar for elder generation, Naruto can finally achieve his goal of becoming Hokage by surpassing what was once the highest tier of warrior. Heck, it's even showing hints of the next generation surpassing Naruto's, with Konohamaru showing even more skill than Naruto at Konohamaru's age.

Also, Orochimaru represents the opposite of the Will of Fire. Rather than allowing himself to become part of the process, he wishes to never die and allow the bar to grow simply by himself. He rejects the very principles Naruto stands for moreso than Madara, Danzo, or Pain ever did.

(I'm sorry I skipped the FMA analogy because I actually haven't seen it, but I intend to and don't want to get spoiled )

I'd actually suggest reading FMA, because Brotherhood has a really weak start and the first anime is much worse than the manga.

[aliveinHim]

Can someone do me a favor and tell me which episode is it that Asuma dies in? I've been skipping around alot to find it.

What really annoys me about Shippuden is Naruto's voice doesn't deepen.