Why do most anim fans hate dragonballz?

[Little T-chan]

The thing that I don't like about the fighting scenes, besides them being way too drawn out, is that I can't even see what's going on. The fighters are all "so powerful and fast" that the fight is a blur. Has anyone else noticed that? Seriously, you can see some legs and arms moving once in a while, but everything else is a blur that moves around the sky. Not my idea of a good scene! ^^;

[Saint]

My what strong opinions you have...

Anyhow, unlike and despite the 90% of CAA, I love DBZ, and DB. I also really enjoy the art style of Akira Toriyama. I can understand some of the frustration the anime brought. I mean going thru several episodes on Namek with nothing going on was horrible. Yet this isn't Toriyama's complete intention... the anime company came along and added stuff, extended it out so that it would last forever (and make them rich). Even with that given the level of disgust some of you have is strange. why do you dislike it so much? Is it that anime is more of a fringe hobby for all of us and the few animes like DBZ and Poke'mon come along and give us a name (possibly an unwanted one). Maybe you just don't relate to the story? thats possible too. I love the idea, I love competition and fights, boxing, martial arts and so forth. As for kids, maybe kids could pretend with it more, but I don't see Superman (the movies) or Neo from the Matrix as just for little kids. I know many college age guys that would gather in the student center everyday to watch the show. DBZ is the classic super power super hero story with a Japanese twist.
One last thought, maybe far too often we consider anime as its own complete genre. Yet look at the varied types of shows we have... you can watch anything really. I don't enjoy soap operas, yet I don't trash them to the girls at work watching Days of our lives or whatnot. Just as they may not want to watch boxing with me. Just because it isn't of interest to yourself does not make it a poor series. I believe the franchise itself speaks for whether or not it is successful and well liked.
So Open minds friends.

[Mave]

Here's my two ringgit about it.

DB appeals to some ppl. And it just doesn't to me. That's all....Why can't everyone respect each other's preferences especially since DB doesn't frizzle any christian values? At least, pls stop the "______" sucks. That's really mean.

Personally, I find Toriyama's art style is different from others but it remains very good. I've watched some episodes of DB, and I just wasn't attracted to the show because the characters didn't appeal to me.

EDIT: Ahem, ...with the exception of Trunks *bishie drool* and I kinda liked the androids

The dubs are bad but I still think DB is a title that everyone is entitled to claim that they're a fan of and be respected.

[ShiroiHikari]

I'm actually kinda fond of some of the DB/DBZ charas. Vegeta used to be my favorite XD I thought Trunks was pretty cool, I waited for-ever- to actually see him in the show.

I understand how it is with the Japanese animation companies (Toei in this particular instance). The author of the original manga gives them license to do whatever with the show, and then the animation company does, indeed, do whatever with it o.O Like I said, the DBZ manga is a little better, because it's Toriyama's original work.

Still, I'd rather not watch the English dubs. I'd like to see the anime uncut and subtitled, but they're making that kinda difficult to do (legally) aren't they?

[MasterDias]

I think at least some of the episodes have official uncut versions available.
Not sure about subtitled versions though.

[Psycho Ann]

DBZ bashing *again*? This kind of thread should be rated most repeated right up there with Naruto threads. And as some of you may know I'm with the 2% of CAA that likes DBZ/DB.

In fact, I dare say, I'm an *avid* fan. Gasp.

Eventhough I'm more specifically an avid fan of the manga (who absolutely loathes what FUNimation did to the anime--despite not liking the anime itself) I really really can't keep from defending it from the usual complaints.

Here is my rant... which I'm going to just copy and paste if another similar thread pops up again since this is going to be my longest and most in-depth defending rant yet:

WHY MOST ANIME FANS HATE DBZ AND THE REASONS THEY SHOULD TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION RANT by Psycho Ann

DBZ is not a serious anime. You won't get heavy angst, complicated plot twists, and back-stabbing in every chapter. You won't get tear-jerkers and have everything fall rationally into place after exceedingly complex revealing of ulterior motives.

I'm a serious anime fan, my roots come from Lain, Evangelion, Spriggan, Blue Sub #6, Blood, Vampire D, Jin Roh, and much more before I've actually started to remotely *touch* DBZ. DBZ, frankly, is a breath of fresh air... for me at least. I'm a shonen fan, I'm a martial art fan, I'm a black and white no shading fan (explains why I like Toriyama's stuff), and if anything I needed something that's just plain classic shonen. Even the anime held my interest for the stupid drawn out fights (man, that is SO classic--I love it and hate it just the same).

The characters all go about the death and destruction in such a relaxed manner that that in itself draws me. Plans go haywire, baddies become good guys, and death isn't an issue. The characters are anything but perfect, they all have their little quirks and even so aren't as 2D as many will percieve them. I love imperfect characters, they are a challenge to write since there's the problem of making it not so obvious--like how we see the people around us. Plus, it makes for great introspective fanfics, mmmm.... introspection.... And did I mention the impossible canon pairings? Bulma and Vegeta--classic, we're all still scratching our heads on that one.

Then the insane continuous power levels. Truthfully, SSJ2 is absolute the coolest IMHO, I have a thing for uber powerful people. If Toriyama had stopped at the Cell saga like he originally intended (before being pestered by his editors) without absolutely over doing things in the Buu saga with SSJ3 and so on then it would just be perfect.

However, it's this stupid and snowball type of "Power to Enemy to Level Ratio" increases that I find just so *classic* shonen. As goes the formula that enemies will increase in power as the heroes does. If it doesn't then the basic equation of "defeat-training-victory" might as well not exist in shonen plots.

And the puns. I'm a pun fan. Love them.

DBZ is not a new anime. You won't get uber magnificant quality (it's actually pretty high in quality in relevance to the year it came out from--the late 80's to 90's). I've seen way worse quality fights in old-school anime to which some might never grace the TV sets of any country again (except for Indonesia maybe. The TV stations here like old and cheap anime. Figures. We have cheap dubbers too.). TOEI is also quite notorious for butchering original manga plots and milk the series like a starving leech on a fat cow. Repetitive fight scenes? No duh, it's cheaper and it uses up the seconds to slow plot advancement for latter episodes. Have you guys ever watched the original Saint Seiya? Now, THAT'S repetitive. (and FYI, I'm a fan of Saint Seiya--even the original one--as well)

Don't expect up-to-date references to pop culture. Don't expect originality (though it was actually pretty original back then when it helped in spawning the great shonen manga/anime of today). Heck, don't expect anything you'll find in modern anime. Why? Because it *isn't* modern anime.

DBZ was already famous. Reaching the west way too late in my opinion really was a blow. Though I admit the way they commercialized and packaged the classic series into somewhat of a second Pokemon faze was admirable. However, DBZ is now brought back to compete with newer anime which are specifically directed towards the angst-loving teen anime fans. The anime companies have gotten smart people, drama and angst are just to die for with the viewers of today, not mindless fighting shonen anime.

It isn't surprising that "mature" otakus would like to distance themselves from DBZ seeing the panolpy of anime offered today. And in proper fashion, the mature otakus' words are to be held high. DBZ sucks compared to other anime (of today?) and that would highten the negative factor for people who haven't watched the series themselves. They then watch with the mindset of what's wrong with it and then unconsciously ZOOM IN on the faults thus producing the, "Aha! They were right! This anime sucks!" effect.

Then what's with the "DBZ is for newbies" thing? Well, I would say it's true to an extent. The first of otakus grew up with DBZ and the rest of classics back when it was famous in Asia (wooo, DBZ on EVERYTHING. The merchandise in the US has nothing on us in Asia... especially the forged and pirated stuff. Can't beat that.) so I would agree it's a "newbie" anime to some extent. If only it was world-wide back then... I wouldn't be writing this right now.

Also it seems to me that the popular opinion is that a person is more "mature" as an anime fan if they no longer favor anime like DBZ or Pokemon. *Shrugs* I honestly have no idea what to say about that.

DBZ version by FUNimation should be blasted to the sun. All right, this one is a more biased opinion than the others but yeah, darn butchers, I hope they reform their evil ways. I can't believe how degrading they made the semi-serious script and characters. How stupidly americanized it is. How utterly BLEAGH. Figures, since big companies conceive that they can sell more merchandise if the majority of viewers are kids. And the music... ARGH. Give me back the early 90's asian themes and sound effects!!! Hyping it up with techno music just gives the impression of a badly done modern anime trying to be cool! ARGH! Then personally I hate dubs. But that extends to all other anime so it doesn't matter here.

DBZ has a relatively bad fandom. Young fans that can't spell and are generally rude really ruins the anime's name. Heck, I've gotten a wrong e-mail where this guy (I presume he's a kid) sprouts a full paragrah of badly spelled obscenities in all caps with horrid grammar about me not giving him any DBZ episodes. (It was hilarious, I was more amused than angry) After a few more e-mails with me explaining patiently he's got the wrong e-mail did the matter finally sort out... leaving a couple of subject rows in my inbox rated R for language.

The DBZ fans are also notoriously annoying, like me wasting your time right now for example. Especially when we start ranting. Just be glad I moderately know how to selpl korektly. Then the power level debates--ugh. Not to mention the SSJ hypes and how Goku or Vegeta can flatten anyone. Or who's stronger than who.

The fanfiction section also leaves little to be desired with the vast collection of written disasters (but at least it doesn't have the suffocating amount of yaoi fics like in some other shonen titles). I'm a DBZ fanfic writer myself so it's a cross we DBZ writers would have to bear with the rest. (still am, probably the only strictly secular major thing I'm still doing, and not really proud with what I have written save for *inserting plug* one entitled 'Veritas'... which is probably the most clean and best written fic I've done despite the heavy angst-load and language. If anyone happens on my fics at FF.net then please put the ratings into consideration. Ah, and do check out "Parable of the Eagle" too, keep in mind the rating. The fics are strictly secular, I'm going to make that extremely clear because when I'm in "secular" mode I really don't pull my punches.... but I am starting to!! XD *glances guiltily heavenward before pulling out plug*)

Point is, don't judge an anime by its fandom. GW and Naruto for instance has incredibly high concentration of yaoi fans in their fandom. Does this make the two series a yaoi anime? Of course not. (For those that argue that GW does have yaoi undertones you can PM me and I'll provide a nice rant for you... which I don't know WHY you would want unless you're feeling masochistic.)

DBZ is too hyped up. Be honest, we all hate hyped up stuff regardless. The Pokemon craze is a good example. I believe this point is self-explanatory.


Anyway, glancing at the clock I realized I wasted a LOT of time on this while I should be packing since my plane leaves tomo--er, today in approx. 8 more hours. Sorry for the rant, ugh, I really need to get the ranting urge under control... *goes off mumbling about theraphy*

[DrNic]

ooooooooooookey then...

(I do agree with the last bit thou, bout dbx being too hyped, thats 1 reason I don't like it, because people make it sound way more hardcore than it actually is)

[Kisa]

I think most anime fans hate DBZ because it is overplayed and really has no depth to its story unlike some other animes we have grown to love. This was a good "starter" anime, but its replay value is nil. But don't get me wrong, I do like some of DBZ, certain "sagas" and all. I thought 18 was awesome!

[uc pseudonym]

Here is my rant... which I'm going to just copy and paste if another similar thread pops up again since this is going to be my longest and most in-depth defending rant yet:

I read the entirity of that, something hopefully everyone will do.

Have you guys ever watched the original Saint Seiya? Now, THAT'S repetitive. (and FYI, I'm a fan of Saint Seiya--even the original one--as well)

I shudder to think of it. I've seen/read a bit... enough to know that I never ever want to see any of it again.

Or who's stronger than who.

But who is stronger than who! I have numbers to prove it and can speak at length on the subject!

Repetativeness in general.

I have one thing to say: drawn-out fight scenes are far better than drawn-out anything else. Fight scenes that last for several issues can at times get on my nerves, but non-fight scenes? Take for example the most recent issues of Shaman King in the American Shonen Jump. It was one of my favorites, but it is dropping on my list...

[ShiroiHikari]

Good rant Ann. ^_^

Also, something I tend to do with anything I'm into: I'm like, crazy zealous fangirl for a while, then I never touch it again. -_- I was hardcore about DBZ for like 3 years(same thing with Sailor Moon). Then came the Cell Saga, which I didn't watch much of 'cuz I was turned off by the Frieza thing. I watched some of the Android Saga, which wasn't half bad...

I think I will go pick up that DBZ manga sometime soon...

[MasterDias]

I have one thing to say: drawn-out fight scenes are far better than drawn-out anything else. Fight scenes that last for several issues can at times get on my nerves, but non-fight scenes? Take for example the most recent issues of Shaman King in the American Shonen Jump. It was one of my favorites, but it is dropping on my list...

Are you talking about the fact that the whole business with Tokagero has lasted around 3 or so issues?

[DragonSlayer]

Ann, that was a good rant, My opinon has once again changed about dbz,Theres much more to it than I orgianlly thought. And everyone I know regarded me as the Dbz master, when infact I was just surpassing the level of tranie

[GeoChansey]

Why do most anime fans hate Dragonball Z?

Beacuse most anime fans are elitist. To be elitist is to look down upon the commonplace... and DBZ is one of the most popular series in American history. You might not want to agree with it, but DBZ, Pokemon, and Sailor Moon are the main reasons you've got so much anime on television right now. DBZ is on tv everyday, and it's material is very easily obtainable. It must be rejected by the elitist.

Truth be told, DBZ is not a children's anime. The original is more violent, bloody, and sexually explicit. The themes are basic, but not to be confused with immaturity. This is why I disagree with the whole growing out of it arguement.

The entry level otaku is supposed to like "mature" shows such as Lain, Naurto, Slayers, and consider Neon Genesis Evangelion to be awesome. In this instance, mature means "you can find it on television" (of course, Lain and Eva have been aired but not to the same extend as DBZ).

Has anyone else seen these generalizations?

[Htom Sirveaux]

GeoChansey
"Because most anime fans are elitist."

Not necessarily. This thread is pretty much full of people expressing legitimate, good, well-thought-out reasons why they don't like DBZ. I'd say that elitists are in the general minority. I don't see any here. I actually touched on that back on page 3.

[MasterDias]

Truth be told, DBZ is not a children's anime. The original is more violent, bloody, and sexually explicit.

Er, I agree with you about the violent and bloody part but... sexually explicit???
That's a term I consider to discribe hentai material, not to discribe uncut DBZ.

Minor nudity, yes. Sexually explicit, definitely not.

[Kite]

My cousin saw a subbed import. Said it was about PG-13.

[Kenchii]

*Crackes hands* Dragonslayer... here are a few questions that shall answer yours. *Ahem* Do you still read books that you read as a First Grader? You know, something like Susan Ran to School or something like that. Do you still watch Barney... or do you want to *Censored for trauma that may be caused for Barney fans if they read about such a gruesome demise he shall suffer at my hands... muhahahahaha ... (cough)...*? That is how many feel toward Dbz. They simply feel that they have outgrown it in anime knowledge to the point that it disgusts them.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[MillyFan]

I'm not being an elitist when I say I don't like DBZ, and I find *that* generalization elitist and *quite* insulting on behalf of the DBZ fans.

Yes, DBZ and Sailor Moon are part of why we have so much anime in America today-but it's been more than time for these anime and their weaker plots to fade into their proper place, as classics and great examples of idiotic editing, weak plot, and how far anime has come since then. ^^

I personally prefer anime with what I think to be deeper plot and characterization along with the fights. That doesn't make me an elitist-it just makes me someone with a different opinion.

[Haibane Shadsie]

I dislike it because I can.

Actually, I did follow a few sets of episodes. The early episodes about the Planet Namek when it aired on Fox... got interested in a while, but the way the plot dragged on quickly bored me. I watched a little bit of the Buu saga... got a kick out of the pun on "Bippity, Boppity, Buu", but that was about it...

It seems to me that the show is all about these endless fights and characters that... using a roleplaying term, "god-mod" all the time. It's like... they have such insanely intense powers that... it kinda takes the excitement out of the fighting for me. It's like... they blow each other up but you know they're gonna live.. or... die but keep coming back... or something. I really haven't followed DBZ enough to tell.

Just... it's not my taste. I'm definitely not an anime elitist. I like dubs and I got hooked into anime on Pokemon. I like some things that are wildly popular, as well as some things that are more obscure... and I don't mind the things I like becomming popular. (I do get annoyed at gluts of bad fanfiction for them when they become overly popular, but.. eh, I live with it. As long as some good fanfiction writers exist, 'tis okay. I learned how to "fish" for gem fanfictions and good writers from Pokemon fandom experience, which had a lot of bad writers in it from the beginning of its airing in America).

I like a lot of anime that some people cannot stand. It all depends upon your taste. DBZ is just... not my taste... for whatever reason.

[Little T-chan]

@_@; Wow you guys..... I like Toriyama's manga art! ^_^ And Vegeta was cool and Trunks was cute....^^; So I guess I can't say that I hate it since I watch it......Whatever.....I don't know anymore! I'll leave the ranting to everyone else!

[uc pseudonym]

Are you talking about the fact that the whole business with Tokagero has lasted around 3 or so issues?

Yes, but more than just that. The entire business was far too drawn out, and I very quickly got bored. What existed was good, but worth nowhere near that many pages. And how does Amidamaru's Shock Wave merit that much space? If attacks are already getting that big for such unimportant things, how are they going to get better as the series progresses?

But yes, that was what I meant. People talking and taking forever doing so is far worse than people fighting and taking forever doing so (unfortunately DBZ has both...).

[Solid Ronin]

If DBZ has nothing else, it has some good character designs.

I agree

[Gypsy]

I've never cared for the show, nor the art style very much. Although ... I do enjoy making DBZ jokes ... *hides*

[Twilly Spree]

*nods* I like making fun of it too Gypsy don't worry.

[Saint]

Thanks Gyps. that's great...

I noticed this painful truth when my 9 year old cousin said 'he didn't understand why some of his classmates watched DBZ. Thats for kids.' (...but he's perfectly ok with the very mature Sponge Bob... )
whatever. next time he asks if i have any movies to watch i will say no.

[Bobtheduck]

Bippity boppity boo? I didnt' even notice, but you're right! That's funny... They just changed it a bit in English so it wasn't as clear, I guess. Bivity and Bavity, or something like that...

[Saint]

Bibidi, Babidi, Buu. should that sound familiar?

[Kisa]

Also, something I tend to do with anything I'm into: I'm like, crazy zealous fangirl for a while, then I never touch it again. -_- I was hardcore about DBZ for like 3 years(same thing with Sailor Moon). Then came the Cell Saga, which I didn't watch much of 'cuz I was turned off by the Frieza thing. I watched some of the Android Saga, which wasn't half bad...

I think I will go pick up that DBZ manga sometime soon...

*nods head in agreement* Yes, I was a rabid fan of Sailormoon and DBZ for ages and the Freiza saga really turned me off to the show. Once I saw the android and cell sagas tho, it was redeemed in my eyes. Until the everlasting Buu saga . . . Trunks made it better, when he left, well . . .
Go Trunks and #18! ^_^

[Psycho Ann]

Anime elites... *Scoff* Sorry, but I personally find a true "elite" to be someone that loves anime/manga in general without being picky about "if I watched that--would it make me look good? Or will it make me seem like a newbie?". Old anime or new, they are to be judged according to their time, genre, etc, not cross judging; for instance between Sailor Moon and Evangelion. Magical girl vs. Apocaly--whatever NGE is just isn't a fair way to base if SM is "worse" than NGE in terms on which is a better anime.

Ugh, sorry, all this bashing just gets to me -_-;; Thanks to small group of CAA-ers that don't hate DBZ, hehehe, it's always nice to know you're not alone. XD

DBZ being sexually explicit? You lost me there.... Language might be a bit strong and there are innuendos but nothing I remember would be higher than PG-13 or PG.

[uc pseudonym]

Yes, Bibidi, Babidi, Buu was nothing but a dumb pun on Akira's part. Personally, however, I think it is his greatest (as any fan or even anti-fan knows, he has puns out the wazoo).