Trusted Computing

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Trusted Computing

Postby inkhana » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:23 pm

Just a little something to discuss...:shady:

WorldNetDaily wrote:Don't trust your computer
Posted: December 8, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

It is understandably difficult for Americans to
worry much about the
future. We are the wealthiest, most powerful society
in human
history, and as many astoundingly silly expert
predictions have
proven, it is notoriously difficult to imagine the
future as being
anything but a linear projection of the status quo.

But an ominous new technology is appearing like a
small cloud on the
horizon. It is being embraced by a consortium of the
world's largest
technology companies and it threatens to completely
overturn the
computing world as we know it.

Twenty years ago, Microsoft was an integral part of
the personal
computer revolution, and fulfilled Bill Gates'
daring dream of a
personal computer on every desktop. But now,
Microsoft has gone to
the dark side and embraced an evil vision. Instead
of liberating
individual creativity through the personal computer,
Microsoft hopes
to use a
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html Trusted
Computer to chain the individual into the digital
bondage of consumer
serfdom.

The Totalitarian Control Group is a consortium, led
by Microsoft,
intended to force all computer users into a new
computing paradigm.
This new paradigm, based on the Non-Governmental
Social Control Box
or NGSCB, will be the new PC standard, according to
Bill Gates,
and "will allow computers to be used in ways they
currently aren't
secure enough to be used for."

How are computers insecure? In many ways. But the
only ways that
actually concern the TCG are those relating to the
use of software
and other digital products in ways that the TCG does
not approve. A
Trusted Computer containing the NGSCB will place a
digital stamp on
all files created on that machine, which can be
encrypted so that
only another Trusted Computer can open them. So far
so good, and no
different than GnuPG or any other private encryption
scheme.

However, a Trusted Computer can also * and will * be
set so that a
document or file produced on a unTrusted Computer
will not open or
run. This is designed to not only eliminate the
ability to run
pirated software, but also to put pressure on those
who do not have
Trusted Computers to migrate to Trusted technology.

Today, for example, I can write a letter in
OpenOffice on my Linux
machine, save it in Microsoft Word format, attach
the document to an
e-mail and send to someone using Microsoft Office on
a Microsoft XP
machine. That person will have no trouble receiving
the e-mail or
opening the document. If the TCG gets its way, my
recipient will
neither be allowed to receive the e-mail in the
first place * it
comes from an unTrusted computer * nor will they be
able to open the
document.

The scheme is diabolically brilliant. Since
Microsoft has learned
that it cannot compete effectively with the Open
Source movement, it
has decided to change the game entirely. In one fell
swoop, the Evil
Empire can hope to achieve the following goals:

1. Lock users into a permanent upgrade cycle.

2. Turn the movie-music cabal from an enemy into an
ally by
converting software from a de facto product into a
per-use license.

3. Slow, and perhaps reverse, the move to Open
Source application
software.

4. Eliminate future challenges to its desktop
supremacy.

5. Sell software licenses in Asia.

6. Win the favor of governments everywhere.

While the first two goals are the most immediately
irksome, it is
this last goal which is the most troubling. Trusted
Computing spells
the end to all privacy in individual computing. Your
ISP * which is
already required to divulge all information about
you when hit with a
subpoena * will know exactly what you downloaded, to
which machine
you downloaded it, and on which machine whatever you
downloaded was
first produced.

Or to put it in words that hit closer to home,
gentlemen, Trusted
Computing spells an end to anonymous porn. Among
other things.

That's why I'm not really too terribly worried about
the likelihood
of the TCG's nefarious plan succeeding. In one
corner, we have the
most powerful entertainment and technology companies
in the world, in
the other we have little but the male desire to look
at pretty naked
women. Obviously, the totalitarians don't stand a
chance.

But how do we fight it? There is only one answer.
Refuse to use all
things Microsoft, in your work or in your home.
Cleanse yourself.
Purge your system. Microsoft delenda est.



BOOSTER: Hey, No.1! Where's my cake?!
SNIFIT 1: Booster, Sir! There's a 70% chance the object you're standing on is a cake.
BOOSTER: What? THIS thing's a cake?

You have the power to say anything you want, so why not say something positive?
- Frank Capra

(in response to an interview question "Do you have a pet peeve having to do with this biz?")
People who write below their abilities in order to crank out tons of books and make a buck. Especially Christian authors who do that. Outsiders judge us for it, and make fun of us for it, and it makes Jesus look bad. We of all artists on earth should be the most concerned with doing our best possible work at all times. We of all people should write with all our hearts, as if writing for the Lord and not for men.
- Athol Dickson


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Postby LorentzForce » Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:11 pm

i still wait the day when all games are made both for Linux AND M$, not just like these days where most games are still for M$ only.

as soon as that day comes, i'm moving immediately to Linux. be it anything (Debian for me probably) but it won't be anything related to M$.
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Postby madphilb » Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:49 pm

If Microsoft keeps going in the direction that it has been, Linux will become a new standard, easy to use/install or not (anyone remember everyone used to use DOS, and it's not much friendlier).

MS is out to make money, unfortunately they've not been doing much in the way of innovation (new products, new features that people really want/use) and this has hurt their bottom line. People stopped upgrading because it just wasn't worth it (not to mention that you'd be getting a whole new set of problems by upgrading... new bugs, incompatability, etc).

If people roll over (as many do with using IE instead of going with something else, dispite all the problems with it) MS will just about own those people. Not me though, a Linux install on my system as the primary OS (with a secondary boot to Windows, 98se most likely).

Many games are seeing Linux ports, and the thing to do is to start letter writing (the old way, not with e-mail) to the game manufacturers and let them know that you'll be switching to Linux and if they don't start producing games for that platform they will be losing your business... if enough people do that they will start to get the hint (some already have). The other option is to go with a console and skip the whole Windows thing.
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Postby Straylight » Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:23 am

That's pretty scary stuff... I've been thinking about switching to Linux for a while now anyway...
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Postby shooraijin » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:07 am

It's already happening -- half of the stuff you use in Windows has to be signed. If a DirectX driver isn't signed by Microsoft as "okay," which costs bucks I might add, then you get all sorts of warnings and are-you-sures and you're-gonna-wreck-your-computers. Dad ran into this trying to build a new Windows XP video editing workstation for Mom; some of the drivers weren't signed and XP whined. ActiveX applets and Java applets have prominent signature warnings. It's already happened, it's just under the radar.

Lest people think this is necessary for the same kind of security Microsoft is touting, 1) if it's ever cracked and someone learns how to sign programs and documents independently of Microsoft, there will be no limitations on what these programs can do, and 2) if Microsoft had built a secure OS from the beginning rather than just bolting on layer after layer of cruft, they would have no need of such things.

I routinely use signature verification of packages I download, but merely for verification, and only for big-name or potentially damaging items. This is sensible. A full onslaught of totally signed operations is not.
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Postby Mithrandir » Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:22 am

Yeah. Welcome paladium. I've basically decided to ignore Microsoft from now on at home. I've got my mac, and it's cool, I guess. My OSX server will probably be allowed to survive for a while, and if users that have M$ on their box can't see it - I don't care. I'm converting my entire family to Mac/Linux because this paladium thing has been talked about for years. The government didn't really like it much - until 9/11. Now there are all sorts of stupid laws that make it very likely something like this can be pursued. This isn't the first nasty thing M$ has done, and it's not going to be the last. Look at what they did to Virtual PC.
"Hmm, if you pair this with a fast G5, this could really hurt our growing market share."
Solution? Buy the company that makes it and don't add support for the G5. It's brilliant. They keep releasing old versions of the software for the G3/G4, but "Can't fix the bugs that rely on psudo-little endian support." Right. Bugs.
etc, etc, etc.
Bottom line: If you have to trust microsoft for "Security" then you may as well just turn off all security. I'll give up my internet access at home before I allow a paladium box. Who knows, maybe I'll start my own BBS again. :lol:
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Postby shooraijin » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:16 pm

Note that I still own *Connectix* VPC 6 ... I refused to apply the Microsoft "upgrade" (all it seems to do is just change everything to say Copyright Microsoft).

Really, this affects just about everyone. Web servers can't serve documents without being "trusted" ... end of Unix-deployments unless they sign non-aggression pacts with the Redmond Evil Empire. Classic computers can't talk to modern systems. Freeware practically dies as an art form ... who would pay their own money to sign software for a company that is actively trying to discourage such development?

It's so ridiculous that it seems impossible it would take root, but look how far along we've already come.
"you're a doctor.... and 27 years.... so...doctor + 27 years = HATORI SOHMA" - RoyalWing, when I was 27
"Al hail the forum editting Shooby! His vibes are law!" - Osaka-chan

I could still be champ, but I'd feel bad taking it away from one of the younger guys. - George Foreman
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Postby inkhana » Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:03 pm

I am -so- gonna learn how to use Linux. I've looked at things sorta leisurely up until now, but I think I need to make an effort to get changed over. Unfortunately, I think M$ would have to put a security guard perched precariously on top of the computer case before Dad would convert to Linux, so I guess I'm out of luck except on my own comp...-_-


BOOSTER: Hey, No.1! Where's my cake?!
SNIFIT 1: Booster, Sir! There's a 70% chance the object you're standing on is a cake.
BOOSTER: What? THIS thing's a cake?

You have the power to say anything you want, so why not say something positive?
- Frank Capra

(in response to an interview question "Do you have a pet peeve having to do with this biz?")
People who write below their abilities in order to crank out tons of books and make a buck. Especially Christian authors who do that. Outsiders judge us for it, and make fun of us for it, and it makes Jesus look bad. We of all artists on earth should be the most concerned with doing our best possible work at all times. We of all people should write with all our hearts, as if writing for the Lord and not for men.
- Athol Dickson


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Postby Heaven's Cloud » Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:12 pm

Well, to the last part of what you posted Inkhana, I'd say that I could switch to Linux, rather than using Windows 98, but I'd still be using Microsoft IE. I can do my best to stop using some stuf Microsoft, but I'd have to switch to Linux, because my whole computer is Microsoft Windows so...

I think I'll try to find a disk to switch to Linux.
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hi

Postby animenewstoday » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:35 pm

LorentzForce wrote:i still wait the day when all games are made both for Linux AND M$, not just like these days where most games are still for M$ only.

as soon as that day comes, i'm moving immediately to Linux. be it anything (Debian for me probably) but it won't be anything related to M$.



i agree
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Postby madphilb » Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:07 pm

shooraijin wrote:Lest people think this is necessary for the same kind of security Microsoft is touting, 1) if it's ever cracked and someone learns how to sign programs and documents independently of Microsoft, there will be no limitations on what these programs can do, and 2) if Microsoft had built a secure OS from the beginning rather than just bolting on layer after layer of cruft, they would have no need of such things.

Exactly... MS wouldn't know security if it came up and bit them on the nose. This is the same company that allowed, what was it, anon. sockets or something... would make DoS attacks almost impossible to track with this added into XP (which as far as I know they did leave in, dispite pleas from security experts).

In the end, if MS tries to push this I forsee a fracturing of computer uses... the Mac/Linux people without such things as "Trusted Computing" and those who continue to be slaves to the MS beast.... and frankly I'd be willing to lose online contact with friends/relitives who would refuse to stop bowing to the lesser demon that is Billy Bob Gates. ( :sweat: sorry, got carried away)

Anyway, I'm going to have to spend some time and research this, see if I can't put some info together and start passing it on to all those I know... esp. those who proudly proclaim that they "love those MS products" *ack! gag!* (no accounting for taste I guess... some people like hogs head cheese too *erp* )
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Postby inkhana » Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:37 pm

>Anyway, I'm going to have to spend some time and research this, see if I can't put some info together and start passing it on to all those I know... esp. those who proudly proclaim that they "love those MS products"

Man, when you get around to that, please be sure to send it my way...we could sure make use of it around here...-_-


BOOSTER: Hey, No.1! Where's my cake?!
SNIFIT 1: Booster, Sir! There's a 70% chance the object you're standing on is a cake.
BOOSTER: What? THIS thing's a cake?

You have the power to say anything you want, so why not say something positive?
- Frank Capra

(in response to an interview question "Do you have a pet peeve having to do with this biz?")
People who write below their abilities in order to crank out tons of books and make a buck. Especially Christian authors who do that. Outsiders judge us for it, and make fun of us for it, and it makes Jesus look bad. We of all artists on earth should be the most concerned with doing our best possible work at all times. We of all people should write with all our hearts, as if writing for the Lord and not for men.
- Athol Dickson


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*sniff* *sniff* Smells like 1984

Postby madphilb » Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:22 am

inkhana wrote:Man, when you get around to that, please be sure to send it my way...we could sure make use of it around here...-_-


I'm still doing some research... I'm not quite sure how to share most of this informatino with people, even the less technical pages would make many of the people I know glaze over if I tried to run it past them....

1st... a link to the offical page for the TCG (Trusted Computing Group), it's their offical home page... note: all info will be slanted toward how wonderful this is ]https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/home[/url]

Ok.... now the good stuff......
The "Trusted Computing" FAQ:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

and the EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation) and it's take on this:
http://www.eff.org/Infra/trusted_computing/20031001_tc.php


Hmmm... . anyone know what Apple's take on this is (Shooby?)
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Postby Technomancer » Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:18 am

Hmm..I don't like this. Right now I'm still using Win 98 and have no plans to upgrade. Hopefully, there can be some consumer movement against this, or strengthening of local laws (like the anti-combines act, or privacy laws) that will ensure better consumer protection. With Paul Martin as the new PM though, I don't really hold out a lot of hope on this score.

Unfortunately, converting to Linux isn't an immediate option for me. MATLAB and Linux don't always play nice together, and noone here uses IDL (which doesn't offer anywhere near the functionality that MATLAB does)
The scientific method," Thomas Henry Huxley once wrote, "is nothing but the normal working of the human mind." That is to say, when the mind is working; that is to say further, when it is engaged in corrrecting its mistakes. Taking this point of view, we may conclude that science is not physics, biology, or chemistry—is not even a "subject"—but a moral imperative drawn from a larger narrative whose purpose is to give perspective, balance, and humility to learning.

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Postby madphilb » Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:32 am

Technomancer wrote:strengthening of local laws (like the anti-combines act, or privacy laws) that will ensure better consumer protection.

Sadly from what I've read they have been (may still be) trying to push this through as law. (I believe it was in the FAQ). Thankfully it failed when they first tried it.
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Postby shooraijin » Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:32 pm

Apple has not said anything yet (at least nothing of substance or that has been widely reported).
"you're a doctor.... and 27 years.... so...doctor + 27 years = HATORI SOHMA" - RoyalWing, when I was 27
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