Is Jesus God himself?

[VashTheStampede]

I had a discussion earlier with my friend on IM about this, and for the most part I agreed with him. There are many passages in the bible that back this up also. Jesus is the perfect son of God, but not God himself. Many people may not accept this, and please do not be mad or biased against me if you don't. I wanted to post this up to get some feedback and other people's opinions. There is a christian site on this, and it also lists the bible references and explains more in depth about the topic.

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/trinity.html

But read through it and lemme know what you think.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Christian who loves God very much and is forever thankful for Jesus saving me.

TheStampede

[uc pseudonym]

What first comes to mind is the following verse. I will continue to consider all of the link more carefully, but I will post this now to avoid posting and being horribly out of date because others have responded.

Philippians 2:5-9
Your attitude should be the same as that of Jesus Christ: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death- even death on a cross!

The person writing argues against this later, but I cannot accept his arguements there.

Two other thoughts: It disturbs me that with all the language being juggled (by either side) there is no mention of the original texts. With such importance being placed on small words, the translation suddenly becomes highly important. Secondly, I wonder what difference this entire issue makes, in regard to just about anything. It might or might not be truth, but while truth is important, don't we have better things to do than argue about issues that have little relevance? Then again, maybe it has effects I am merely too unwitting to see.

Wow, I just keep editing this and adding things. That may have negative side effects later...
In any case, I think any argument over "co-equality" is completely irrelevant. Wouldn't any form of God in any manner of human likeness automatically be inferior to the purest form of God? To interact with us at all, he has to step into time, which is automatically a downgrade.

Perhaps I have an example from my own life. Character in FFX with max stats can do far more damage than maxed characters from FFVII. Yet trying to compare them is worthless, because they use entirely different systems. Maybe this example has no meaning, but for me it is a different thought.

[Bobtheduck]

That and the fact that not only John called him God, buit also he himself used terminology that was only to be applied to God (using the term I AM this and I AM that with other phrases, and the term by itself once)

Also, the words on the cross were written in Hebrew, Greek, and I believe latin, but I'm not sure... The reason the pharasees were so upset was because in Hebrew, the anagram spelled out "YHVH" which is the unspoken name of God. He most certainly was God.

[Bobtheduck]

All I'm saying is that not only did he say he was God himself, but the tappestry of events leading up to all the things that had to happen pointed to the fact as well. Plus, all of his most trusted disciples attested to the fact he was God.

EDIT: after looking over my writings a few times, it appears as though I'm arguing with myself... "That, and..." I had probably written something there before, but now can't remember what it was, or I just mistyped... I know my posts look strange... "

Hmm... I'll wait for a response before I make any more additions...

[VashTheStampede]

Thank you for all your feedback on it. As uc said, it is irrelevant sometimes to argue about such facts. I am just glad and thankful to be saved and to know God. I still don't completely know what I think of this, but as fellow Christian brothers and sisters, I would like to know your opinion on this issue but not to get into bitter argument, and to join together to praise the God we all love. =)

[uc pseudonym]

I humbly retract my former statement in regard to Greek. There is some later. However, I'd like to see more in areas where he's defending his own concepts, not refuting others.

It saddens me that the issue of an omnipotent God stepping into reality is considered a mere farce on His part. CS Lewis has a few interesting thoughts here, with his allegory of the man in the river and the man on the shore. It is because the man on the shore is on it that they can help. Likewise, it is because Jesus was God that he can help. Should one refuse the help of the man on the shore because he had an "unfair advantage?" Indeed, do we not all have our own degrees of temptations and strengths that give us an advantage or disadvantage?

[VashTheStampede]

Yea, uc, you have a good point there. I agree with you on that. I agree with points on both ends of the argument. I haven't yet come to a conclusion on either sides of the argument, even though I see truth on both sides. It is just one of the many things that human minds can't grasp, but most important is to have faith in God and know that everything going to be ok.

[Shinja]

in the begining was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the begining.

well i think John 1:1 here sums it up good Jesus is the Word.

[Ashley]

Theologyweb.com is really the more suited place for this discussion; we discourage theological issues that could incite debate: it's just not our purpose. I encourage you to take this up with your pastor, or another learned adult. Or PM members whose opinions you value. But threads like this leave way too much room for controversy and hurt feelings, even when you meant the best intentions.