Handel's Messiah

For all the music-lovers out there, this is your place to swap lyrics, talk about new bands and jazz about concerts. All things related to the audio world belong here.

Handel's Messiah

Postby ClosetOtaku » Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:57 am

For those who have never heard Handel's Messiah... the whole work... you are in for a treat if you decide to sit and have a listen. The entire libretto is nothing but Scriptural passages. The accompanying music is some of the best to be found in the classical tradition.

One problem I've encountered is that so many of the recordings of Messiah are done in an "Operatic" style (for lack of a better term); the vibrato in the singers' voices tends to be, well, annoying, and makes it difficult to understand the words.

However, I've found one particular recording that I've absolutely fallen in love with. It is the version performed by The Toronto Symphony with Andrew Davis conducting; a link to the disks can be found at Amazon.com. This is the entire Messiah oratorio without much of the vibrato, orchestrated on the light side, with quality performances from Kathleen Battle and Samuel Ramey, among others. Various reviewers have either praised or lambasted it according to their preferences, but I think for the average non-Opera-going consumer, this is tops.

If you're only familiar with the Hallelujah chorus and maybe Unto Us A Child Is Born, or some of the other more popular movements, I strongly recommend listening to the entire oratorio. And the above is my recommended version to start with.
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." -- C.S. Lewis
User avatar
ClosetOtaku
 
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:12 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Postby Chibikyo » Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:15 pm

I like the version relient K did on their christmas album...it made me laugh when I first heard it.
User avatar
Chibikyo
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 12:11 pm
Location: A place where the sun shines on the tree covered hills

Postby Mizumi-Kun » Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:39 pm

Can you believe Handel wrote that in less than 48 hours?
Mizumi-Kun
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:27 pm
Location: Warrenton, MO

Postby PumpkinKoRn52 » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:39 am

Actually Handel didn't write all of it. He borrowed (Stole, actually) a lot of tunes and motifs from other people and peiced them all together. It was still really good though.
"Relax, turn around, and take my hand." Tool
"Heir Kommt Die Sonne." Rammestein
"Now the world is gone, I'm just one. Oh please God help me." Metallica
"Are You Ready?!?" KoRn
"All and all your just another brick in the wall." Pink Floyd.
The downfall of society will be society itself.
Rap is the malignant tumor of the music industry.
I HATE LINKIN PARK
User avatar
PumpkinKoRn52
 
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:43 pm
Location: Way Down South

Postby SManBeyond » Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:20 pm

It is excellent. The Hallelujah Chorus is my favorite praise / worship song. No matter how many times I've heard it in its original form or parodied, it always has an amazing amount of power on my heart. I also have the whole work at home and enjoy listening to it every Christmas...
"Love means to love that which is unlovable; or it is no virtue at all." G. K. Chesterton

Founder of S.T.R.A.W.B.E.R.R.Y. R.H.U.B.A.R.B. P.I.E.

[url=smanbeyond.blogspot.com]My Blog[/url]
User avatar
SManBeyond
 
Posts: 437
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:16 am
Location: Virginia

Postby Kokhiri Sojourn » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:17 pm

Mizumi-Kun - How did you learn that Handel wrote the Messiah in 48 hrs?

PumpkinKoRn52: Where did you learn that he stole the music from existing works? What are the works? Did he just take the tunes or all the voice parts and the accompaniment? This would be interesting research....

I sang in a performance of "The Messiah" about three weeks ago, and let me tell you, it is glorious being surrounded and enveloped in that music and the Scripture. I can say that of all the choral performances I've had the pleasure to sing in, this one was in the top three. There is such progression in the music that by the end, you've experienced and heard the Gospel, and responding at the end with the resounding "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain"... simply breath-taking.
User avatar
Kokhiri Sojourn
 
Posts: 1215
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:48 pm
Location: Waco

Postby dragonshimmer » Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:14 am

One problem I've encountered is that so many of the recordings of Messiah are done in an "Operatic" style (for lack of a better term); the vibrato in the singers' voices tends to be, well, annoying, and makes it difficult to understand the words.


Vibrato is a problem....how? :lol: ;) *is an opera singer* Handel's Messiah is one of many oratorios, most of which (maybe all) are in German or English. Oratorios ARE operas...kind of. The difference is that they are religious in nature and they are not to be staged/acted out. The were "invented", you could say, so that people could enjoy "operas" in a church setting and on Sundays, but the content is ALWAYS religious. That's why you don't hear too many Broadway singers singing them. :thumb:

Vibrato doesn't make the words difficult to understand....bad diction (ie lack of good consonants, mispronunciation of words, etc.) causes the problem.

:lol: There's your music lesson for the day. Sorry...had to do it :)

The aria "For He Is Like A Refiner's Fire" is my favorite. And it is TONS of fun to listen to during the holidays. It's a shame that more people aren't familiar with more of the works. There is more to it than the Hallelujah chorus :)
User avatar
dragonshimmer
 
Posts: 1422
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:02 am
Location: Hillbilly hickville for now.

Postby EvilSporkofDoom » Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:32 am

I'm going to see it this Sunday at the Kennedy Center in Washington D.C.. I'm looking forward to it.
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
-Hebrews 11:6

User avatar
EvilSporkofDoom
 
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 6:00 am
Location: Maryland, USA

Postby Maledicte » Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:49 am

i like the Messiah, but i like Israel in Egypt better.
What? you've never heard of Handel's Israel in Egypt?????????
it's really cool, like the "hopping" melody of the plague of frogs...heh heh
plus, it's really fun to blast "THE LOOOORD SHAAAALL REEEEEIIGN..." out the window (like in eat drink man woman, good movie)
User avatar
Maledicte
 
Posts: 2078
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:39 pm

Postby Kaori » Fri Dec 24, 2004 1:38 pm

Just to clear up a few things:
Handel didn't write the entire Messiah in 48 hours. I wish I could tell you the exact amount of time it took, but unfortunately I left the notebook that contains that information at college. However, he did complete the entire orchestration for the oratorio in the last two days before finishing the piece, and that may be what Mizumi-kun was thinking of. That in of itself is quite an amazing feat.
Borrowing tunes from other pieces was a common practice in the Baroque era, and it would not have been viewed as 'stealing.' I know that Handel re-used material from some of his other works in the Messiah, but borrowing from yourself can hardly be considered stealing, either. I'm not informed on the extent to which he borrowed from other composers.
Here's another interesting thing: although we often associate the Messiah with the Christmas season, it was originally meant to be performed around Easter. The reason that it's so often performed during the Advent season here in the United States is that when it premiered in the US, in Boston, it was around Christmas. It's definitely great music for any time of year, though.
User avatar
Kaori
 
Posts: 1463
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:48 pm
Location: 一羽の鳥が弧を描いてゆく

Postby ClosetOtaku » Fri Dec 24, 2004 5:17 pm

dragonshimmer wrote:Vibrato doesn't make the words difficult to understand....bad diction (ie lack of good consonants, mispronunciation of words, etc.) causes the problem.

:lol: There's your music lesson for the day. Sorry...had to do it :)


Thanks for the lesson! I guess I need to express myself more clearly.

I listen to some versions of the Messiah and think, "This is an operatic singer, and the quality and tone of his/her voice, the trilling of the consonants, the 'excessive' vibrato in his/her voice, really is getting in the way of me understanding the lyrics/enjoying the music".

In contrast, I listen to singers who are schooled more in the "music theater" form of the art -- and I say, "At least I can understand what they are saying, and the style of their singing is not (as) distracting".

Although Battle and Ramey are certainly not "music theater" type performers, this recording is clearly more in line with what I like than many other recordings, thus my preference of it.

Not to say I don't like Opera -- heck, for Christmas I just got Wagner's Ring cycle from a good friend who knows my tastes -- but I think Handel performed with less Opera-tic style is more to my liking.
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." -- C.S. Lewis
User avatar
ClosetOtaku
 
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:12 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Postby Kokhiri Sojourn » Sat Dec 25, 2004 9:31 pm

Kaori wrote:Just to clear up a few things:
Handel didn't write the entire Messiah in 48 hours. I wish I could tell you the exact amount of time it took, but unfortunately I left the notebook that contains that information at college. However, he did complete the entire orchestration for the oratorio in the last two days before finishing the piece, and that may be what Mizumi-kun was thinking of. That in of itself is quite an amazing feat.
Borrowing tunes from other pieces was a common practice in the Baroque era, and it would not have been viewed as 'stealing.' I know that Handel re-used material from some of his other works in the Messiah, but borrowing from yourself can hardly be considered stealing, either. I'm not informed on the extent to which he borrowed from other composers.
Here's another interesting thing: although we often associate the Messiah with the Christmas season, it was originally meant to be performed around Easter. The reason that it's so often performed during the Advent season here in the United States is that when it premiered in the US, in Boston, it was around Christmas. It's definitely great music for any time of year, though.


Thanks - I realized that many of the themes in the music reappear throughout the oratorio. Yet pulling together such a cohesive body of music, with progressive texts of Scripture which tell of the glory of the Lord and of salvation - it is breath-taking. I've listened to it several times this advent. Thanks for the clarification, Kaori.
User avatar
Kokhiri Sojourn
 
Posts: 1215
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:48 pm
Location: Waco

Postby Kaori » Sat Dec 25, 2004 10:13 pm

Oh, no problem. I just hope I wasn't being *too* pedantic. I listened to some selections from it today, as well--it truly is an amazing piece of music.
User avatar
Kaori
 
Posts: 1463
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:48 pm
Location: 一羽の鳥が弧を描いてゆく


Return to Jam Session

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 285 guests