Fair Trade

[Yuki-Anne]

Okay, so when I was a kid for a little while my mom made us check every toy and clothing item were going to buy to make sure it wasn't made in China. She would talk about sweat shops and stuff, but eventuallly I guess we all just gave up.

But fair trade is coming back to my attention. We don't talk about it much, like it's some accepted reality of our society that most of our cheap goods come from slavery. So many big companies in the industrial world obtain their goods through unscrupulous means. There are a lot of daily items that you use without thinking which might have come at the cost of human suffering: chocolate, coffee, electronics, clothing...

I mean, are we really okay with this?

Here are some places you can read up on fair trade:

http://www.transfairusa.org/
http://www.fairtradefederation.org/

Now, I know it's hard, especially when you're barely scraping by, to look at the mass of cheap products that come through unethical business practices and not feel completely helpless. But I think we can do something about this.

Unfortunately, I've been trying to find out what brands in Japan are fair trade, but there's not that much information.

http://www.transfairusa.org/

[Cognitive Gear]

<3 Fair Trade.

I think we have been down this road a few times, so my position is clear. I do everything in my power to avoid as many products that are made through unethical means as is possible.

It's been about 2 1/2 years since I last bought a pair of shoes. Somehow the ones I bought before I was aware of these issues have lasted that long.

[ChristianKitsune]

I at least try to buy fair trade coffee. (since this whole idea was only recently brought to my attention ^^; )

[Yuki-Anne]

I'm glad you mentioned shoes, because I actually hadn't looked into that yet.

[ShiroiHikari]

I buy fair trade when I can, but the reality is that I can't always afford to do it.

[TopazRaven]

In all honesty I find it really hard to buy fair trade. First off because I don't have a job yet and am not making my own money, most of the time I don't have a choice on what is being bought. My mom is of the stubborn opinion there isn't anything we can do about it because everything is made in China. We can't really afford fair trade to begin with at the moment. Next off is I don't really know what I'm looking for. How do you know if something is fair trade? The only store that I know of that sells sweatshop free clothes and shoes is hours away.

[mechana2015]

I'm gonna slap a big warning in here.

Do not let this go into politics.

Thank you.

[Rusty Claymore]

I probably missed why in the earlier threads, but why isn't it referred to as "Ethical Trade"? The concept seems to deal more with ethics than justice. And since it also has less to do with actual trading, wouldn't there be a more effective term to transfer the intended meaning? I had thought "fair trade" was already a defined term in commerce and stocks.

[Cognitive Gear]

I probably missed why in the earlier threads, but why isn't it referred to as "Ethical Trade"? The concept seems to deal more with ethics than justice. And since it also has less to do with actual trading, wouldn't there be a more effective term to transfer the intended meaning? I had thought "fair trade" was already a defined term in commerce and stocks.

As far as I know, there wasn't a pre-existing term, unless you are talking, very specifically, about the Fair Trade Law, which permitted manufacturers to specify a retail price.

Anyways, it's called Fair Trade because that is exactly what it is about: producing fair prices and good working conditions for producers of goods in developing countries. It's fair.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

To me, fair trade is an important but realllllyyyy difficult issue, because SO many of our current and modern-day amenities exist due to the expense of the well-being others, yet at the same time the alternative could be simply that they do not have jobs. Examples being:

1. Clothes. Plenty of out clothing is produced in sweatshops where workers make very little money compared to the hours they work. Even with exchange rates and inflation of individual economies considered, it's still not a living wage.

2. Electronics. A lot of electronics we have consist of minerals which are mined by enslaved workers (with women being subjugated to systematic rape and children becoming child soldiers) in placed such as Sierra Leon and The Congo. It's the exact same concept as blood/conflict diamonds, but instead with precious metals. The last time I checked, of the companies that were trying their best to make their products Conflict-Free Assured, Japan did very little on their part. I'll have to dig around for more updated information.

3. Medicine. Some pharmaceutical companies do preliminary testing of new drugs in places such as Africa, because unethical practices wouldn't be as policed there. Obviously this leads to numerous side effects and other dangerous complications. So if you go to your local drug store and pick up some Advil, you could very well be funding the people who do such practices. Case in point: Pfizer (the manufacturers of Advil and other drugs) has been under some heat recently for this very issue.

So I agree with you. It's really hard trying to live and buy ethically and responsibly. I don't think we can ever be FULLY fair trade, but we should at the very least spread awareness and do the best we can.

[Nate]

And since it also has less to do with actual trading, wouldn't there be a more effective term to transfer the intended meaning?

"Trade" is a term that refers to the sale of any goods so I don't see how it has nothing to do with actual trading...especially since the goods produced under Fair Trade are normally goods that cannot be produced in this country. Coffee and cocoa, for example, don't really grow well in the US environment, so practically all coffee and cocoa must be imported from other countries.

And of course, companies that use Fair Trade ingredients are simply saying that they buy from providers that pay their workers a decent living wage, as opposed to using sweatshop or slave type labor. This of course normally makes Fair Trade goods a bit more expensive than others. Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream, for example, was the first ice cream company to use Fair Trade ingredients, and they're pretty well known for usually being more expensive than other ice cream makers. But of course, that's partially due to the fact that they pay more for their ingredients than companies that buy from providers that use slave/sweatshop labor.

[Warrior4Christ]

I had thought "fair trade" was already a defined term in commerce and stocks.

Would that be "free trade"?

Firstly, I would guess working conditions vary greatly in China. For example, even some delicate, high-grade electronics from big brands are manufactured there, and I would guess it would be made to a much lower quality if they were made in sweatshops. And for some things, there's not much of an alternative other than Taiwan/Thailand/etc.

Secondly, for some things, it's hard to buy fair trade because the market is saturated with sweatshop-made items... and it's hard to know. But hopefully more and more types of manufacturing open up to sourcing things ethically as it becomes more prominent. And I do hope the extra cost does go to the actual person making the item rather than extra retail/company overheads/profits for slapping on a fair trade logo...

On second thoughts, I kind of do like the name "ethical trade"....

[UniqueAngelStar]

To me, fair trade is an important but realllllyyyy difficult issue, because SO many of our current and modern-day amenities exist due to the expense of the well-being others, yet at the same time the alternative could be simply that they do not have jobs. Examples being:

1. Clothes. Plenty of out clothing is produced in sweatshops where workers make very little money compared to the hours they work. Even with exchange rates and inflation of individual economies considered, it's still not a living wage.

2. Electronics. A lot of electronics we have consist of minerals which are mined by enslaved workers (with women being subjugated to systematic rape and children becoming child soldiers) in placed such as Sierra Leon and The Congo. It's the exact same concept as blood/conflict diamonds, but instead with precious metals. The last time I checked, of the companies that were trying their best to make their products Conflict-Free Assured, Japan did very little on their part. I'll have to dig around for more updated information.

3. Medicine. Some pharmaceutical companies do preliminary testing of new drugs in places such as Africa, because unethical practices wouldn't be as policed there. Obviously this leads to numerous side effects and other dangerous complications. So if you go to your local drug store and pick up some Advil, you could very well be funding the people who do such practices. Case in point: Pfizer (the manufacturers of Advil and other drugs) has been under some heat recently for this very issue.

So I agree with you. It's really hard trying to live and buy ethically and responsibly. I don't think we can ever be FULLY fair trade, but we should at the very least spread awareness and do the best we can.

I agree with you a lot.
I wish I can do Fair Trade, but It's really hard to find items that are produced by fair labor.
I should do my best to buy items which are fairly made while I can afford it.

How can you tell if a item is fairly traded made or not? We need some tips, especially for me..

[Atria35]

I agree with you a lot.
I wish I can do Fair Trade, but It's really hard to find items that are produced by fair labor.
I should do my best to buy items which are fairly made while I can afford it.

How can you tell if a item is fairly traded made or not? We need some tips, especially for me..

I know that for some things, it will be advertized as such. I've seen labels on coffee and chocolates that mark them as fair trade. They can be hard to find, so occasionally I'll buy them over the internet.

[Agloval]

Fairtrade International run a kind of certification scheme -- somewhere on their website there should be lists of the exact standards they use. IIRC there're stipulations about trying to slow price movements as well as keep prices fair for some markets, because with coffee, for example, the price can fluctuate a lot and make it difficult for growers to make planting decisions. (Disclaimer: I'm not an economist!) Here in the UK products with this mark should meet Fairtrade International's standards. I think the mark can vary from country to country though, so check the transfairusa site that Yuki-Anne linked if you're in the US, or see if your country has its own fairtrade organisation if you're not (Fairtrade International's site has links for their member organisations).

Fairtrade products have an established position in the UK now, I think, in that while they're not everywhere most people at least vaguely know what they are and a lot of shops do stock them. The closest supermarket to my house, for example, has a policy of only stocking fairtrade bananas. There's also a fairtrade-only shop on our high street (imaginatively named 'The Fair Trade Shop') and for many years it's been possible to order some products from organisations like Traidcraft.

I'm sure the fairtrade movement isn't a panacea for economic injustice, and picking up on Mr Smartypants's mention of electronics, there're no Fairtrade iPhones. But it's something.

[Lynna]

I remember, A few years ago, I bought some Nike shoes, and then my older brother yelled at me because he said that Nike used slavery v.v
So the next time I bought shoes, I didn't buy Nike. But the problem is that Nike owns many other shoe companies... So even now I can't be sure my shoes are slavery-free

[Nami]

I'm shocked!

I actually have been interested in this issue a lot, and I do try to avoid people who aren't Fair Trade. However! After searching those sites Yuki linked... I'm stunned and a little proud to find that most of the products I purchase are, in fact, of fair trade! ^^ So, I was doing it without even realizing! :3

I'm glad you brought this up Yuki! ^_^ It gave me a good reason to double-check everything I buy! ^_^

I'd say the hardest thing to avoid un-fair trade in is clothing. :/ honestly, I think that might be the worst of the lot (oh and toys)

[Cognitive Gear]

I remember, A few years ago, I bought some Nike shoes, and then my older brother yelled at me because he said that Nike used slavery v.v
So the next time I bought shoes, I didn't buy Nike. But the problem is that Nike owns many other shoe companies... So even now I can't be sure my shoes are slavery-free

As a rule of thumb, shoes are made in sweat shops unless otherwise specified. (Or if they are made in a country with labor laws.) Right now, I am looking into buying a pair of ethletics, since they look to be a good alternative to Converse. (which is owned by Nike) They aren't that much more expensive, either. I used to wait until Converse went on sale so they would only be 40$.

I remember when Converse were made in the US and had a price tag of 20$.


Sidenote: this discussion reminds me of this.

[Nanao]

It's really hard trying to live and buy ethically and responsibly. I don't think we can ever be FULLY fair trade, but we should at the very least spread awareness and do the best we can.

In my opinion, this is what it really comes down to. Because of the way things are made now, it's next to impossible to be only fair trade. There are a lot of places now that are trying to sell more fair trade products, which is totally awesome. But really I think that the key is awareness. People just don't know what they are buying. Of course there always is the part of the population who don't really care, but I think most people would try if they were aware.

My family buys fair trade wherever possible, but sadly for some things there isn't that much of a choice.

[F.M Disciple]

Starbucks sells fair trade coffee called"Estima" and the logo that tells you it's fair trade looks like this in the U.S



It's a bag of whole bean coffee, the cost is $11.00(U.S) The way you can get it is by buying it in the Starbucks coffee house.
You can also request that your drinks be brewed by this bean I believe.

[TheMewster]

I wish I could be fair trade... but I can't afford it or find the fair trade products in my small town. Is Dollar General and Family Dollar fair trade?

Also, even if we don't buy the products, slavery will still exist, so we need to fight back in other ways besides boycotts, like prayer and donating to charities that help these people.

Or at least, donate to charity to balance the damage you're doing, or just buy used electronics instead of new (which saves money ANYWAY), since obviously the damage has already been done and you aren't funding these companies by doing that.
Let me give an example: I've said to God that I won't buy Pokemon Black or Pokemon White (because of Nintendo's conflict minerals issue) unless I can donate either TWICE the price of the game to a charity helping these people if it's new, and donate the price of the game if it is used. And if I can't find any charities helping them, I simply abstain from buying the game. This pretty much guarantees that I will probably never be able to play Pokemon B or W, but I already have other Pokemon games that work JUST FINE and some that I STILL haven't even BEAT YET. Most importantly, this is what Jesus would do.:thumbsup:

For food, (I know many of you can't do this due to having just an apartment or living in a big city) my parents grow their own veggies. Now, they don't do this for fair trade---they do it to save money. Nevertheless they probably ARE helping by being self-sufficient as far as vegetables. Now, occasionally we have to buy some veggies, and we still have to buy meat, but we are eating a lot healthier and probably helping a lot of people out.

[Atria35]

I wish I could be fair trade... but I can't afford it or find the fair trade products in my small town. Is Dollar General and Family Dollar fair trade?

You want to look at brands, not stores, and Dollar General and Family Dollar wouldn't have fair trade items because they're trying to sell cheap things. Fair Trade is more expensive than what they would want to stock.

Gorwing your own veggies isn't fair trade, since they're doing it themselves- Fair Trade is when you're buying from others at a price that lets them support themselves and is considered a livable wage. Buying veggies at the grocery store probably isn't fair trade unless they're marked as such- and are hard to find. Buying at a local farmer's market? Then it's probably fair trade.

[Shao Feng-Li]

To be honest, I don't really care to look for fair trade labels. Actually, I'd rather just see "made in the USA" on a label. Not importing absolutely everything would help the "fair trade" thing a lot, I think.(I would love for Levi Jeans to still be made here. They'd be the only one's I'd buy) (And come on Apple, your products roll off the same lines as cheap crap from China. Don't be so elitist.) But for now, I need to buy whatever shoes don't hurt my feet since I stand on them all day, even if they be Nike. If anyone knows of any good athletic shoes made in the States (that don't cost $500, let me know.) Not to mention, I work for Walmart*, so I'm practically the Devil anyway, right? XD

Holy crap, I just found a $55 conflict free organic shirt for a toddler. They'll outgrow it in two weeks.

As a rule of thumb, shoes are made in sweat shops unless otherwise specified. (Or if they are made in a country with labor laws.) Right now, I am looking into buying a pair of ethletics, since they look to be a good alternative to Converse. (which is owned by Nike) They aren't that much more expensive, either. I used to wait until Converse went on sale so they would only be 40$.

If they made shoes that were comfortable to work in, and not just hipster styles, I might consider it.

[Nate]

To be honest, I don't really care to look for fair trade labels. Actually, I'd rather just see "made in the USA" on a label.

Again, most Fair Trade ingredients are things that can't be made in the US, like cocoa and coffee. Those crops don't grow in the climate of North America, which necessitates their importation from other countries.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Again, most Fair Trade ingredients are things that can't be made in the US, like cocoa and coffee. Those crops don't grow in the climate of North America, which necessitates their importation from other countries.

Ok, aside from those things then. Still, I can't afford $11 for 8 ounces of coffee...

... At the same time, I don't really need to drink half a pot in the morning.

[TopazRaven]

I wish I could be fair trade... but I can't afford it or find the fair trade products in my small town. Is Dollar General and Family Dollar fair trade?

Also, even if we don't buy the products, slavery will still exist, so we need to fight back in other ways besides boycotts, like prayer and donating to charities that help these people.

Or at least, donate to charity to balance the damage you're doing, or just buy used electronics instead of new (which saves money ANYWAY), since obviously the damage has already been done and you aren't funding these companies by doing that.
Let me give an example: I've said to God that I won't buy Pokemon Black or Pokemon White (because of Nintendo's conflict minerals issue) unless I can donate either TWICE the price of the game to a charity helping these people if it's new, and donate the price of the game if it is used. And if I can't find any charities helping them, I simply abstain from buying the game. This pretty much guarantees that I will probably never be able to play Pokemon B or W, but I already have other Pokemon games that work JUST FINE and some that I STILL haven't even BEAT YET. Most importantly, this is what Jesus would do.:thumbsup:

For food, (I know many of you can't do this due to having just an apartment or living in a big city) my parents grow their own veggies. Now, they don't do this for fair trade---they do it to save money. Nevertheless they probably ARE helping by being self-sufficient as far as vegetables. Now, occasionally we have to buy some veggies, and we still have to buy meat, but we are eating a lot healthier and probably helping a lot of people out.

When it comes to buying video games I just buy them used from GameStop. No money goes to the actual company then so you can still have the game without supporting a company that doesn't care wither it's using conflict materials or not.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Ok, aside from those things then. Still, I can't afford $11 for 8 ounces of coffee...

... At the same time, I don't really need to drink half a pot in the morning.

It is true that fair trade is more expensive, but I think the important thing is that we still do our best. The whole thing is a cost-benefit analysis in our heads, i.e. "This coffee is a little more expensive, but less-expensive brands may be contributing to human rights abuses". It's a question as to whether or not we want to contribute to said abuses. Maybe we can also change our lifestyles to drink less coffee? So that $11 8oz bag can last a little longer?

Cause we don't live in a perfect world. And it will never become perfect by human measures. But this doesn't mean we should not ever cease trying. To me, aiming for a goal which may be impossible is the whole point of embodying the unconditional love and hope of Christ.

[TheMewster]

It is true that fair trade is more expensive, but I think the important thing is that we still do our best. The whole thing is a cost-benefit analysis in our heads, i.e. "This coffee is a little more expensive, but less-expensive brands may be contributing to human rights abuses". It's a question as to whether or not we want to contribute to said abuses. Maybe we can also change our lifestyles to drink less coffee? So that $11 8oz bag can last a little longer?

Cause we don't live in a perfect world. And it will never become perfect by human measures. But this doesn't mean we should not ever cease trying. To me, aiming for a goal which may be impossible is the whole point of embodying the unconditional love and hope of Christ.

Yes, yes. Your post inspires me. And if it is a NECESSITY (meaning you can't just deny yourself it) and you can't find/afford to get it non-conflict/fair trade, I suggest putting the price of it in a jar and at a certain period of time, donating to charity to try to balance out the damage you're doing.
And yes, yes, in these electronics situations, the best thing to do is buy used or abstain from it.

Also, what I meant with the garden is that we don't have to buy unfair trade products, not that we're making fair trade products.

I think sharing and buying/selling among churches and the brethren will help as well. Can anyone find some charities helping these enslaved people?

[ShiroiHikari]

...the damage you're doing? Damage?

I'm just going to leave this thread forever now.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

It's not so much a direct damage, but if certain companies are making money off of you, then yeah. In the long run we are contributing to certain human rights abuses. If everyone stopped buying medicine from Pfizer, then (whether they really are or not) in theory could not fund drug testing in Africa, let alone manufacture drugs in the beginning.

Speaking of which, the biomedical and pharmaceutical industry is just downright evil. Cures to diseases are far less profitable than temporary treatments. For example, it's said that one company (I'll need to dig around online) bought the rights to a promising cure to diabetes and then kept it away from the public so that they could continue to profit off of insulin. With the way our economy is set up, the idea itself is far too likely to not be a myth or rumor. Everything is a racket. War, business, etc.

And I think as Christians, we need to actively work towards social justice. And while I think that our engagement in the political arena can help (at least in theory), unfortunately I feel that our country is too rooted in profiting at the expense of others to let there be true reform. One good example (out of many) of this is Operation PBSUCCESS in the 1950s. I recommend looking this up. But despite this we should keep trying!