Is wearing 'skimpy' clothes truly immoral?

[Rusty Claymore]

@ Nate: Sorry, but I'm not splitting hairs. I was merely responding to your enquiry on my post.
I don't see how I could be any clearer with my posts. If someone is trying to accomplish something and you start messing with it, that is mean. That's what I said.
Once again, I never said someone was "built" to sin. Quite the contrary, it was instilled for good. Neither did I say we were biochemically engineered for molesting people.

Now I may have missed this earlier, but what's the argument for skimpy clothes? Though in all honesty, I probably don't want to hear it.

[mechana2015]

Would you accept 'more comfortable in hot weather, more practical for things like swimming and running'?

[Rusty Claymore]

▬_▬ Honestly? No. I am a runner, I have done lot of swimming, and I've spent time in really hot weather. Skimping out doesn't make a noticeable difference. If others disagree, there's really nothing I can do about it. n.n

[Nate]

I don't see how I could be any clearer with my posts. If someone is trying to accomplish something and you start messing with it, that is mean. That's what I said.

Then again, it is mean to buy a fancy new car and make your neighbors covet it. Therefore, if you want to say that wearing skimpy clothes is "mean," then buying nice things is "mean" too. But nobody complains about people buying nice things or say that it's immoral. And coveting your neighbor's stuff is definitely a sin.

And your response to that seemed to be "Well men are wired to lust, but not wired to steal/covet." That seems like splitting hairs because all those acts are sinful. It doesn't matter if a sin is "biochemically engineered," it's still a sin, right? So then it doesn't matter if a man is more likely to lust than steal]Neither did I say we were biochemically engineered for molesting people. [/QUOTE]
But molesting people and thinking lustful thoughts aren't the same. Not every guy who sees a girl dressing in skimpy clothes is going to molest her or even want to molest her.

And I hope I'm not being rude, but your statement that "We're not biochemically engineered for molesting people" seems like victim blaming, as in "Well if a girl didn't dress like that she probably wouldn't get molested." You probably aren't saying that, but I'm saying the way you phrased that could be construed that way.

Now I may have missed this earlier, but what's the argument for skimpy clothes?

Like mech said, there are answers ranging from "It is hot outside" to "It is easier to run and exercise in," but really, "Because I like wearing it" is a perfectly valid explanation too. If a girl likes wearing them, then she absolutely can wear them, and that's fine. Women do not have to seek out approval from males for every aspect of their lives, they can live their own lives and make their own decisions, and like what they want to like.

EDIT:

▬_▬ Honestly? No. I am a runner, I have done lot of swimming, and I've spent time in really hot weather. Skimping out doesn't make a noticeable difference. If others disagree, there's really nothing I can do about it. n.n

That's true, and that's fine. I disagree with you obviously...I live in an area where temperatures consistently exceed 90 degrees in summer, with high humidity, and I can tell you there is a MASSIVE difference in my comfort level when I'm wearing a shirt vs. when I'm not wearing a shirt. Being in a shirt is miserable in summer weather here. You're in Alaska, so I can see there not being much of a difference in being clothed in summer, since it's pretty mild there.

However, I think the problem is when a person goes from "I disagree with these reasons for people wearing skimpy clothing," to "If you wear skimpy clothing you are immoral and immodest." Just because you disagree with someone is not a reason to accuse them of wrongdoing.

[Darth_Kirby]

Let's just say it this way: It's not a sin, but it certainly doesn't help others around you not to sin. Being modest is more for the benefit of others than yourself sin wise, but it also has the added bonus of making people look at YOU and not just your body.

[Slater]

The way I look at it, if you have to ask yourself "Is this too skimpy?" it's too skimpy.

[Darth_Kirby]

The way I look at it, if you have to ask yourself "Is this too skimpy?" it's too skimpy.

dito. You shouldn't worry too much or let others guilt trip you into thinking that certain clothes are skimpy and others aren't, but if you look at yourself in the mirror and have second thoughts listen to those nagging doubts...

[Nate]

but it also has the added bonus of making people look at YOU and not just your body.

This is completely untrue, as again, studies have shown men lust MORE after women who are clothed than women who are completely nude. Also, many men are turned on by many different things. A bikini might not do much for one man, but another man might be incredibly turned on by a full-length gown. One man may not give a second glance to a girl wearing short shorts, but will stare longingly at a girl in baggy jeans.

If a guy wants to lust over a girl, he's going to do it no matter what. And many guys will look at a girl's body even if it's covered, so what you're saying doesn't work at all. However...

You shouldn't worry too much or let others guilt trip you into thinking that certain clothes are skimpy and others aren't, but if you look at yourself in the mirror and have second thoughts listen to those nagging doubts...

I do agree with this completely. A girl shouldn't feel condemned by others for what she wears, but if she isn't comfortable with an outfit, she shouldn't wear it. This of course isn't feasible in all circumstances (some schools/jobs have dress codes), but outside of those circumstances a girl should always like what she's wearing.

And we're being sexist again by thinking this applies only to girls. This applies to guys too! I guess it's just easier to make it women-focused because for whatever reason (I blame a double standard like Nette does), guys aren't beaten over the head with verses about modesty and dress like girls are.

[TopazRaven]

The way I look at it, if you have to ask yourself "Is this too skimpy?" it's too skimpy.

In all honesty, I'm sorry, but seriously I have to disagree with you somewhat. Why? As a young woman myself, taking in least American culture into consideration, I feel I dress modestly. However, I have huge problems with low self-eestem, but I also worry about people looking at me the wrong way. Until this year I literally felt like a tramp for wearing a t-shirt. Many in North America wouldn't consider a normal t-shirt unmodest would they? This all started when my best friend started making fun of my chest size. I used to be really flat-chested, but when I hit 16 they er grew... She'd always make comments in front of people and it was so embarrasing that then I was always ashamed and embarrassed if I wore more form fitting clothes or t-shirts. I felt I'd be 'showing them off to much.' This feeling has finally died down a lot (mostly because I finally relized my breast really are NOT that big at all. My friend is an over-reactor). Anyway er...sorry about that. This was probably a story you didn't need to hear.

[aliveinHim]

Modest is hottest. Nuff said.

[Atria35]

Modest is hottest. Nuff said.

But, uh, then you're causing them to lust, and that's what you're not supposed to do!

[MrKrillz0r]

Why would you want to dress skimpy anyway? >_> The only reason would be to look good, even though you know it can lead others to sin easily because you show off so much of your body, unless its because the weather is really hot or something, and then people should understand.

[minakichan]

Why would you want to dress skimpy anyway? >_> The only reason would be to look good, even though you know it can lead others to sin easily because you show off so much of your body, unless its because the weather is really hot or something, and then people should understand.

Even aside from the comfort thing ("I like shorts! They're comfy and easy to wear!"):

Because.
It's.
CUTE.

A girl can want to look good without intending to make guys hot and bothered. I don't happen to choose clothes for the entire purpose of influencing how people of the opposite gender see me. I wear skirts and stuff sometimes because...

...

<s>Because it makes me feel PRETTY</s> because sometimes I want to dress more feminine, and it makes me feel confident. Even if I'm *gasp* showing skin above the knee, I don't particularly think I'm going to make guys, uh... (lololol) any more or less than when I wear jeans. I'm also not so overconfident that I somehow imagine myself as a SEXAY wildcat brimming with SEXAY confidence that thinks I can actually make a guy go AWWWWWWW YEAAAAAAAAAH or anything. In other words, there are possible reasons to show a little skin aside from I-hope-someone-thinks-I'm-hot.

I feel like the people who notice clothes more are girls anyway. How many guys do stuff like "Awww your blouse is so CUTE~" or whatever anyway? I cut my hair really short one time from being medium length, and my guy friends didn't notice for a week

Also, aside from dressing in skirts, sometimes I like to wear my interview clothes (I'm weird) with a tie (I loooooooove ties), and it's pretty much for the same reason as weird skirts even though it shows no skin at all.

As a caveat, I think there's a difference between normal girls who dress up (or down) and girls who DELIBERATELY dress to get guys' reactions. While it's possible to walk around the city in a belt-like skirt with your thong sticking out and your shirt buttoned open to completely reveal your hot pink push-up bra WITHOUT intending to make guys look at you (which means YOU HAVE REALLY BAD TASTE), I might be stereotyping a bit, but girls with this mindset are probably in the minority of ones who dress that way...

[ShiroiHikari]

I like to play dress up because it makes ME happy. I don't really do it for the benefit of others, except perhaps my husband. If people compliment me then that's pretty cool but I'm not like WAHHH if nobody does.

Also ties are awesome and I wish I could pull one off.

[Yamamaya]

This is completely untrue, as again, studies have shown men lust MORE after women who are clothed than women who are completely nude. Also, many men are turned on by many different things. A bikini might not do much for one man, but another man might be incredibly turned on by a full-length gown. One man may not give a second glance to a girl wearing short shorts, but will stare longingly at a girl in baggy jeans.

If a guy wants to lust over a girl, he's going to do it no matter what. And many guys will look at a girl's body even if it's covered, so what you're saying doesn't work at all. However...

Exactly, as I mentioned in my previous posts(Shiroi and my posts appear to getting ignored in this thread) some men are turned on by the Mennonite look, the secretary look, librarian, etc. In addition, when a guy goes to the beach/pool, there are a huge amount of girls there wearing bikinis, thus if a girl really grabs his attention, she probably would even if she wasn't wearing a bikini. When something becomes normal, it suddenly isn't as appealing as it once was.

I do agree with this completely. A girl shouldn't feel condemned by others for what she wears, but if she isn't comfortable with an outfit, she shouldn't wear it. This of course isn't feasible in all circumstances (some schools/jobs have dress codes), but outside of those circumstances a girl should always like what she's wearing.

And we're being sexist again by thinking this applies only to girls. This applies to guys too! I guess it's just easier to make it women-focused because for whatever reason (I blame a double standard like Nette does), guys aren't beaten over the head with verses about modesty and dress like girls are.

Most definitely. It should be up to the girl. If she doesn't like it or feels uncomfortable, don't wear it.

It should apply to guys, but it constantly is only applied to girls.

[ShiroiHikari]

(Shiroi and my posts appear to getting ignored in this thread)

All my posts get ignored on this forum. XD

[minakichan]

some men are turned on by the Mennonite look, the secretary look, librarian, etc

And there's the simple glasses moe too! Doesn't mean we should all switch to contacts

[Yamamaya]

And there's the simple glasses moe too! Doesn't mean we should all switch to contacts

Oh man, I love that glasses moe look! Glasses are sexy, enough said. :brow:

[TopazRaven]

Exactly, as I mentioned in my previous posts(Shiroi and my posts appear to getting ignored in this thread) some men are turned on by the Mennonite look, the secretary look, librarian, etc. In addition, when a guy goes to the beach/pool, there are a huge amount of girls there wearing bikinis, thus if a girl really grabs his attention, she probably would even if she wasn't wearing a bikini. When something becomes normal, it suddenly isn't as appealing as it once was.

Most definitely. It should be up to the girl. If she doesn't like it or feels uncomfortable, don't wear it.

It should apply to guys, but it constantly is only applied to girls.

All my posts get ignored on this forum. XD

Oh noez! Don't feel ignored! If it helps any I agree with you both. Lol, I haven't been replying much in this thread so far because well...I'm just more interested in seeing what everyone else has to say I guess.

[QtheQreater]

Well, if you have a nice car or a nice house, and someone drives or walks by, they might go "Hmm that's a nice house/car, I should steal it." Thieves aren't exclusive to poor people. :p You can have thieves that come from rich or financially secure families too.

Ah. I was more referring to the large contrast between finances to highlight intention to make people covet, not steal. I see where it reads otherwise. My bad. I was more putting the blame on a rich person intending to showcase his wealth in front of those who don't have it. Anybody who can afford the car and still covets it is sinning without the extra incentive. That "extra incentive" idea is what I think doesn't quite work with just having a nice car when comparing it to wearing revealing clothing.

But I think it still fits, because again, girls who wear short shorts and tanktops aren't always doing it to show off their body. There's other factors involved too, such as weather for example. And not everyone who buys a fancy car is doing it to show off, either.

Granted. I'm from a locale that necessitates showing some amount of skin if you ever want to leave an air-conditioned area in the summer.

The stumbling block passage does exist, yes. And I know what it says. If a person thinks it's a sin to eat meat sacrificed to idols, but you think it's okay, and you eat the meat in front of him, you might condemn him by your actions (because then he'll think "Even though it's a sin, I should do it anyway").

I think that doesn't apply here, though, for a couple of reasons. One, most guys who would be upset would rather condemn the girl than themselves. It'd be analogous to the man who doesn't want to eat the sacrificed meat saying to the other guy, "You're a horrible pagan heathen for eating that meat, it's YOUR fault I'm sinning!" God doesn't seem to accept passing the buck for sins, He didn't when Adam blamed Eve for his sin at least, it was still Adam's fault no matter how much he tried to pin it on Eve. Thus, if a male sins, it doesn't matter what the female is wearing, it's still his fault, not hers.

Agreed. But, there are more guys out there who would condemn the girl than you might think. Mostly Christian, from my experience. I've heard a least one directly say that girls are at fault for getting raped because of the way they dress these days. I really hope he's reformed his view by now.

Two, what's being said is not "Refrain from wearing skimpy clothes around men who might be tempted to sin." What's being said is "Never wear skimpy clothes ever." It'd be analogous to the man who thinks it's okay to eat sacrificed meat being told "You can never eat meat in front of anyone else because you might tempt them to sin by doing it." That's not what the verse says, though. The verse doesn't say the man can NEVER eat meat sacrificed to idols, just not in front of someone who might be tempted to do likewise despite thinking it's a sin. It does say that Paul himself was willing to never eat meat again in order to prevent someone else from sinning, but he never commanded people not to eat meat.

Again, agreed, but you have to remember Paul's situation...pretty much everyone he was ministering to was part of a culture that offered the meat to idols before selling it in the marketplace...as I understand it, pretty much all meat was "suspect" in that regard. Eating meat pretty much anywhere had the risk of "offense" associated with it...but this is getting too interpretive for me.

And if you want to go down that route with it, then it gets tricky, because then you have to start thinking about Christian denominations who think alcohol is a sin. What about denominations who think women wearing pants is a sin? Should all you females wear skirts for the rest of your lives because it might tempt another female who thinks wearing pants is a sin into wearing them? If your answer is no, then I think the answer should also be no as far as telling women they can't wear the clothes they want to.

If it would hurt the harmony in your situation with those who are offended by those things, then I think you would have to question which is more important, who is right on the issue or the relationship. I don't think I'd intentionally wear short-shorts in an excessively conservative area just because I have the freedom to do it.

Then again, there are cases where I have no reason to be conscious of how much offense is taken. Such as being willing to discuss my faith (not hammering it into someone, mind, but actually not being afraid to bring it up). I know for a fact that such an action is right and necessary during my lifetime.

Third, the situation here is "One man is doing something, making another man want to do that thing." This is different from "One man is doing something, making another man tempted to do a completely different thing." If someone thought wearing skimpy clothes was a sin and your wearing them made that person want to wear them too, then the stumbling block verse could apply. But since the verse itself is talking about causing someone to do the same thing, even though they think it is a sin, rather than talking about causing someone to do something completely different, I don't think it applies.

Eh, well, this is also getting into interpretation a bit much for me. I will say that I think your take is kind of narrow. But that's just me...

The way I look at it, if you have to ask yourself "Is this too skimpy?" it's too skimpy.

Can't agree with this one. Having grown up in a conservative denomination, I personally would ask myself that for...basically everything I wore at one point because of the "modesty" paranoia in the conservative atmosphere. I still struggle with that, even with articles of clothing I know I have no actual modesty qualms about.

[Ally-Ann]

I think it depends on how you define "skimpy". Wearing a swimsuit to the beach or pool is just fine... to an extent, in my oppinion. I define skimpy as showing too much skin, like when someone wears a bikini. I don't care if you're overwweight, or if you have a dream body; bikinis show too much. :/ Also, mini skirts, mini shorts, and really low-cut shirts make the skimpy clothes list to me. I mean, I wear low-cut shirts, but I'm careful and I usually wear camisoles under them.

However, you need to think about other cultures as well. When it comes to cultural costumes that show your stomach, I don't have any problems with it. Look at middle-eastern cultures, for example. Their traditional costumes show the stomach and cleavage. But that's their culture and they don't see it as immoral, because it's not, in my book.... But that still doesn't mean that I'm gonna prance around the mall in one.

Basically, here're the two rules to find out if what you're wearing is too skimpy or not for girls.

1. If you're wearing a dress or skirt and you're afraid of your underwear showing if you sit down, don't wear it. If you can only stand in something, it's too short.

2. If you're wearing a low-cut shirt and you can either see a lot of cleavage or you can see your bra, it's too low and you need to wear a camisole underneath. Simple as that.

And for guys, it's really just the pants pulled halfway down the butt-thing:

If your underwear is showing, get a belt. Please. And if you're one of the guys who show your tighty-whities on purpose, stop it. Respectable girls don't like seeing guys with fifty yards of denim hanging off their heels. It's disgusting. And stupid. It's disgustingly stupid.

[Maledicte]

[edit] eek double post

[Maledicte]

Even aside from the comfort thing ("I like shorts! They're comfy and easy to wear!"):

Because.
It's.
CUTE.

A girl can want to look good without intending to make guys hot and bothered. I don't happen to choose clothes for the entire purpose of influencing how people of the opposite gender see me. I wear skirts and stuff sometimes because...

...

Because it makes me feel PRETTY because sometimes I want to dress more feminine, and it makes me feel confident. Even if I'm *gasp* showing skin above the knee, I don't particularly think I'm going to make guys, uh... (lololol) any more or less than when I wear jeans. I'm also not so overconfident that I somehow imagine myself as a SEXAY wildcat brimming with SEXAY confidence that thinks I can actually make a guy go AWWWWWWW YEAAAAAAAAAH or anything. In other words, there are possible reasons to show a little skin aside from I-hope-someone-thinks-I'm-hot.

I feel like the people who notice clothes more are girls anyway. How many guys do stuff like "Awww your blouse is so CUTE~" or whatever anyway? I cut my hair really short one time from being medium length, and my guy friends didn't notice for a week

Also, aside from dressing in skirts, sometimes I like to wear my interview clothes (I'm weird) with a tie (I loooooooove ties), and it's pretty much for the same reason as weird skirts even though it shows no skin at all.

YES YES YES and THANK YOU. Because dressing up and being fashionable for the heck of it is FUN. (also I now want to wear my interview clothes, since I have nowhere to wear them.)

In response to the OP:

Maybe we shouldn't be asking whether or not someone wearing skimpy clothes is being immoral]women themselves,[/I] and treat them as, I don't know, fellow human beings, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[QtheQreater]

Maybe if people weren't so much, "Girls shouldn't cause men to lust with their clothing!" (and vice versa, if that ever happens) and instead focused on the girls themselves, and treat them as, I don't know, fellow human beings, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Really, I hope that this isn't a question about who we can condemn or what we can condone in others but rather a reasonable discussion of how to evaluate our own conduct. Seeing as it actually is something that is discussed in Christian circles and all, I don't think it can be ignored...

[Okami]

I am glad to see that the context of the "stumbling block" verse has been discussed. I would further point out that my use of the term stumbling block in my original post in this thread was not in context of Scripture but rather in the context of Topaz's words in her OP. (Just clearing that up in case anyone was wondering)

I honestly dislike that I deal with the issues that I do, due to my past. That's my problem that I have self-esteem issues among others. I've accepted that not everyone agrees with me fashion-wise, and that's okay - I don't have to have a final say over someone else's attire. I can only speak to myself any what I feel comfortable in.

[Maledicte]

Really, I hope that this isn't a question about who we can condemn or what we can condone in others but rather a reasonable discussion of how to evaluate our own conduct. Seeing as it actually is something that is discussed in Christian circles and all, I don't think it can be ignored...

I know, but the thread seems to have gone the route of "I see girls wearing short shorts and I think/other people think that they're sluts." We can't control their hearts and actions and wardrobe, but we can control our own.

[Nate]

And if you're one of the guys who show your tighty-whities on purpose, stop it.

Yeah.

Buy some boxers, then you can show them off on purpose.

[ShiroiHikari]

Guys seriously need to pull their pants up. Also I don't get guys that wear SKINNY JEANS and STILL sag them down past their butts. Seriously, don't do that. It is so not hot (and potentially offensive). Girls can't get away with showing off their cute panties by sagging their jeans, so guys shouldn't be able to get away with it either. :I

[MrKrillz0r]

I think my idea of what skimpy is was a bit over the top, I was thinking kinda extreme, showing some skin over you knee's wasn't what I meant, my apologies. ^^ And about sagging the pants I don't see the problem as long as you don't actually show whats under. I wouldn't care even if girls were sagging their pants, if they did actually cover it with a sweater or something that doesn't blow up as soon as you move (This is the same for boys ofc).



At least I don't wear skinny jeans. :3

[Okami]

Super skinny men can pull off skinny jeans alright (I'm thinking guys who are 120-130lbs or under) but for all the rest...yeah, please, no.