Words you hate

[ShiroiHikari]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a minute:

If it's not okay to call something "retarded", then why is it okay to call something "stupid" or "lame"? What about people who are stupid, or people who can't walk?

[MomentOfInertia]

Because 'stupid' and 'lame' are not used as technical terms any more nor have they been for some time. They are free of any specific meanings and can be tossed about by the popular culture to mean whatever we want them to mean.

Personally I find 'stupid' to be kind of banal as an insult and try to find more obscure invectives, I also find 'lame' to be ... well stupid.

[Nate]

I'm going to go with Nette here. On a message board once, I described something as "lame." Someone posted and said "Hey, I want you to know I am lame in the literal sense, my legs are very weak and I can't walk properly. It's very insulting and hurtful to me to have something bad described as 'lame.'"

Why is the word "lame" okay, when it's an actual medical condition, but not "retarded?" Is it simply because the word "lame" has become so far removed from the actual medical condition that nobody thinks about it? If so, then who's to say the same won't happen to the word "retarded" either? Soon it will become removed from its medical condition and nobody will think about it. It's already happened to a degree, you won't hear a doctor refer to someone as "retarded" these days, they are mentally handicapped or mentally ill.

"Dumb" is another one. Dumb means a person incapable of speech. When you call something "dumb," it's insulting to those who have speech problems. Why is "dumb" acceptable but not "retarded?"

EDIT:

They are free of any specific meanings and can be tossed about by the popular culture to mean whatever we want them to mean.

So then if we keep using the word "retarded" like that, it will likewise become free of specific meaning. So why is it bad to use it? People who use it are simply trying to free it of specific meaning.

You can't just claim "Well we don't use it that way THESE days" because then I'll just turn it right back around on you and say "gay" and "retarded" could one day be viewed in the same way if people use them enough.

Besides, that's horrible to say "This term is insulting but it got used so much no one cares anymore." Does that change the fact that "lame" is still a term that can be viewed as insulting to people? What do you say when someone is offended? Do you just say "get over it?" That doesn't sound like a very Christian response to hurting someone.

[MomentOfInertia]

Okay 'lame' is still used, I did not know that. And that pretty much demolishes my argument as far as 'lame' is concerned.

'retarded' is going through the same process 'stupid' did int the past, its position as a medical term is diapering and its being left adrift. another ten years and no one will even notice anymore. Though 'retarded' still retains some specificity outside of the medical field.

I honestly can't remember the last time I heard someone say 'dumb'.

And actually 'gay' has already been redefined into its current form, it has only held a stable definition for as long as it has by virtue of being the most convenient term.

Also you didn't argue with my explanation for 'stupid'.

[Nate]

Though 'retarded' still retains some specificity outside of the medical field.

Oh absolutely, although these days "retarded" is pretty much just becoming a synonym for "stupid" and "retard" is becoming a synonym for "idiot."

Except when it's used in its proper non-medical context as a verb, which is rare (for example, "retarding the growth of x" or something along those lines).

And actually 'gay' has already been redefined into its current form, it has only held a stable definition for as long as it has by virtue of being the most convenient term.

This is also true, except in this case, the community it refers to has embraced it and uses it in a positive sense, so it's kind of the opposite of most other stuff which is used in a negative/insulting sense (which is why they're upset about people using it in a negative sense).

Also you didn't argue with my explanation for 'stupid'.

Because I've honestly never heard it used as a medical term. I'm not saying it hasn't been, just that I'm unfamiliar with its usage as a medical term. Which happens some times, I mean, I'm sure most people are unaware of the term "idiot" as it's used in Athenian democracy. *shrug*

[MomentOfInertia]

Oh absolutely, although these days "retarded" is pretty much just becoming a synonym for "stupid" and "retard" is becoming a synonym for "idiot."

Except when it's used in its proper non-medical context as a verb, which is rare (for example, "retarding the growth of x" or something along those lines).

Fire retardant is one common example.

This is also true, except in this case, the community it refers to has embraced it and uses it in a positive sense, so it's kind of the opposite of most other stuff which is used in a negative/insulting sense (which is why they're upset about people using it in a negative sense).

It is definitely a unique case.

Because I've honestly never heard it used as a medical term. I'm not saying it hasn't been, just that I'm unfamiliar with its usage as a medical term. Which happens some times, I mean, I'm sure most people are unaware of the term "idiot" as it's used in Athenian democracy. *shrug*

It has not been used as one for so long that no one recognizes it as such.
How did Athenian democracy use 'idiot'? Now I'm curious.

[That Dude]

To me words are like spices. Just as one uses different spices for different recipes, one can use all sorts of words for different instances and enhance the mood. And this applies to not only happy words but cusswords and "shock value" words, for example, Paul in Phillipians 3:8 uses the hellenistic Greek word equivalent to the modern word s**t in his exhortation. Also when talking about the Judiazers who were trying to add circumcision as a step to salvation Paul says that he wishes they would emasculate themselves. But anyway, I don't really have a problem with almost any words as long as they are used in an effective, contextual way.

Except the word "redonkulous" which belongs with Satan in Hell.

Anyway, I think that words are much to fun to hate, and it's also fun making up new ones and assigning whatever meaning you think is appropriate to them. It makes for interesting times watching how certain things will catch on and how...

[Nate]

I'm just copy-pasting from Wikipedia here, just so you know. XD

An idiot in Athenian democracy was someone who was characterized by self-centeredness and concerned almost exclusively with private--as opposed to public--affairs. Idiocy was the natural state of ignorance into which all persons were born and its opposite, citizenship, was effected through formalized education. In Athenian democracy, idiots were born and citizens were made through education (although citizenship was also largely hereditary).

Today, educators and political scientists increasingly resurrect this terminology's etymological origins in order to discuss a growing major problem with modern American republican democracy: self-centeredness. They do so in order to understand the major modern problem in American participatory government in apathy in distinguishing between its underlying causes: idiocy (self-centeredness) and alienation.

Declining to take part in public life, such as democratic government of the polis (city state), such as the Athenian democracy, was considered dishonorable. "Idiots" were seen as having bad judgment in public and political matters. Over time, the term "idiot" shifted away from its original connotation of selfishness and came to refer to individuals with overall bad judgment–individuals who are "stupid".

End copy-paste. So it's easy to see why the term "idiot" became an insult, because being uneducated was part of being an idiot. On a side note, it's also why I don't feel bad about calling certain people "idiots" because they fit the definition of being self-centered and only concerned with themselves rather than society at large.

[MomentOfInertia]

Interesting.

[Cognitive Gear]

I think that the difference lies in the way the words have been used as insults. "Retard" has actually been used as an insult against people who are actually mentally handicapped. As far as I know, "lame" hasn't.

Regardless, though, while "moron" "idiot" and "stupid" all once had similar meanings to "retard", these words were all used at a time before derogatory remarks that single out a group were looked down upon by society at large. They have since lost their original meanings. I'd rather that society be sensitive to the feelings of it's fellow man like it is now than for it to be callous just so that we can have an easier time insulting one another.

[Nate]

I'd rather that society be sensitive to the feelings of it's fellow man like it is now than for it to be callous just so that we can have an easier time insulting one another.

I echo this sentiment. While I can't say I've never used the word "retarded" to describe unfavorable situations, I understand it's a hurtful word, and try not to use words like that in insulting ways. Which is also why I've tried very hard to cleanse the word "lame" from my vocabulary in a negative light, because of that person on the message board who was insulted by my use of it.

My posts were merely to determine why "retarded" and "gay" were so hated by people, but not words like "dumb" or "lame," and I still have yet to hear an answer beyond "Well we don't use those words like that these days," which is not a satisfactory answer to me.

[rocklobster]

Nate, the reason I hate the word retarded, is that I spent a lot of time with "special needs" kids. I developed a sympathy for them, and I think the word has become judgemental over time. It seems to imply that you don't think much of them.

[Nate]

That still doesn't explain why that word is unacceptable but "dumb" and "lame" are. It seems very self-centered. "Well I didn't work with any kids who had trouble speaking or had trouble walking, so I don't think much of them!" So still not a satisfactory answer in my eyes.

[Diamond Dragon]

Cuss words and words and mean name calling words. Enough said.

[Cognitive Gear]

That still doesn't explain why that word is unacceptable but "dumb" and "lame" are. It seems very self-centered. "Well I didn't work with any kids who had trouble speaking or had trouble walking, so I don't think much of them!" So still not a satisfactory answer in my eyes.

You know, I had no idea that lame was offensive until this thread. I'm going to have to make efforts to stop my use of it from hereon.

[Nate]

Cuss words and words and mean name calling words. Enough said.

Wow, you hate ALL words? Harsh. :p I guess I'll have to learn binary to talk to you.

[mysngoeshere56]

For me, it's the word "retard" or "retarded". Really, call someone that in front of me and you'll cause me to lose respect for you. This is because I spent most of my schooling with "special needs" kids, and developed a sympathy for them, to the point where it really offends me when I see people mistreat them.

I agree with you. Though, for me, it's not so much the word itself, but how it's used. If a machine's completely going haywire, I don't mind people saying "my computer (or whatever is messing up) is being retarded", but that's only because a machine is an inanimate object without feelings that could be hurt. Calling a person that, on the other hand, I find very insulting and disrespectful.

I hate it when people use the word 'gay' to describe something. That movie wasn't gay, it was bad. That test wasn't gay, it was hard/aweful/terrible. The moment I hear someone use it like that, it gets me so steamed!

I was just about to say the same thing.

[MomentOfInertia]

If a machine's completely going haywire, I don't mind people saying "my computer (or whatever is messing up) is being retarded", but that's only because a machine is an inanimate object without feelings that could be hurt.

Actually that would still be wrong but, it would be a grammar issue.

[ShiroiHikari]

Technically if your computer was being slow and you called it "retarded" you would be correct since "retarded" literally means "slowed down".

Also...I have never come across someone who was offended by "lame", "dumb", or "stupid". Nowadays, "lame" doesn't mean "one who cannot walk" in colloquial speech, and "dumb" doesn't mean "one who cannot speak". In modern times we would probably describe someone who cannot speak as "mute", and we would probably describe someone who cannot walk as "handicapped" or something along those lines.

If we neuter our speech to remove all possible offenders, then what are we to say when we find something displeasing? "I find this situation/object displeasing"? If you want to sound like a character in a 19th Century novel, I guess that's fine, but I live in the 21st Century and I speak colloquial American English. I mean no disrespect to anyone when I describe something as "lame" or "dumb" because those words don't mean the same thing as they used to.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I hate all words. I hate language.

[Psycho Molos]

If we neuter our speech to remove all possible offenders, then what are we to say when we find something displeasing? "I find this situation/object displeasing"? If you want to sound like a character in a 19th Century novel, I guess that's fine, but I live in the 21st Century and I speak colloquial American English. I mean no disrespect to anyone when I describe something as "lame" or "dumb" because those words don't mean the same thing as they used to.

We'd have Newspeak from "1984"

[ShiroiHikari]

One more thing:

If, as has been said many times in the many threads about cursing, intent matters more than the words themselves, then if you say something is "dumb", "stupid", etc. with no ill intent toward anyone, does that still make it wrong? If your only intent is to express displeasure with a situation or inanimate object, then why is it wrong to use such words?

[That Dude]

If we neuter our speech to remove all possible offenders, then what are we to say when we find something displeasing? "I find this situation/object displeasing"? If you want to sound like a character in a 19th Century novel, I guess that's fine, but I live in the 21st Century and I speak colloquial American English. I mean no disrespect to anyone when I describe something as "lame" or "dumb" because those words don't mean the same thing as they used to.

I agree with you for once.

[Htom Sirveaux]

I hate all words. I hate language.

I'm curious - when you hate something as broad as language (meaning, I would assume, all spoken/written languages and all other forms of communication all over the world), how do you pinpoint where exactly to direct your resentment?

Me, I dislike snobbish, pseudointellectual words like "paradox" or "fallacious" or "dichotomy". (Or "pseudointellectual", for that matter.) I could rewrite The Sneetches with all this needlessly complicated college-boy jargon and it'd still be The Sneetches.

[ich1990]

If we are still in the business of striking off words with our PC machine (har har), I will add "imbecile" and "moron" (as well as the aforementioned "idiot") to the no-use list. All were at one time used to the same effect as "retarded" albeit with more specific meanings in medical and psychological communities.

Oh, and going off of what Shiroi said: Nate, I have to ask what you feel about certain "swear words". You have often defended swearing in general, yet if you are going to be politically correct how can you justify certain words that are clearly offensive towards mothers, females, and illegitimate children (and maybe even donkey owners)?

[Htom Sirveaux]

What about brake retarders? Are they offensive? If so, what should they be called?

[Cognitive Gear]

Again, I think that there is a difference between using "gay" or "retard" and something like "moron". The medical use of moron has fallen completely out of use already. There are no doctors that will diagnose someone as "moron", unless it is for comedic or insulting purposes.

As such, it really can't be equated. Just because something happened in the past doesn't mean that we should be ok with it today. We have our own moral issues that we are dealing with today, and we would do well to at least make an effort to do better than we have in the past.

To make a hyperbolic point, many countries were built on slave labor, but that doesn't make slave labor an okay thing to do today.

What about brake retarders? Are they offensive? If so, what should they be called?

Come now, you know better than this. The way that the word is used in this context is not an insult.

[Htom Sirveaux]

Of course you're right - I couldn't possibly have been joking.

Also, I think I'll add "hyperbolic" to my list. Thank you.

[Cognitive Gear]

Of course you're right - I couldn't possibly have been joking.

Also, I think I'll add "hyperbolic" to my list. Thank you.

Given what some people have been saying in this thread, it was just as likely that you weren't.

I am pleased to have supplemented your quasi-elite anti-intellectual list of repugnant lexemes.

[Radical Dreamer]

[quote="Cognitive Gear (post: 1479927)"]Given what some people have been saying in this thread, it was just as likely that you weren't.

I am pleased to have supplemented your quasi-elite anti-intellectual list of repugnant lexemes. ]