Society's double standard when it comes to girls and boys.

[Yuki-Anne]

No, because those independent, highly-intelligent, and assertive women also get objectified, so it doesn't "counterbalance" at all. In fact the assertive women are usually the first to get savagely attacked by people, assertive women usually get classified as "b****es" or have their sexuality questioned (because they're "acting like a man"). Assertive men usually get classified as "go-getters."

QFT. As a generally assertive female, I have observed that it tends to be off-putting to people for me to know what I want and go after it. I don't run over people, but (especially in the arena of dating) assertive women are "pushy" and "clingy." I understand that there are pushy, clingy women, but most people don't seem to understand the difference between assertive and needy.

[Maledicte]

Also, there are lots of independent, highly-intelligent, assertive women in the media to counterbalance all the sexual objectivication crap..

In media specifically, these independent, highly-intelligent, assertive women are much, MUCH hotter than your average woman. Whether they are cops, detectives, lawyers, military, secret agents, spiritual mediums, whatever, they are perfectly made up, coiffed, physically fit, and fashionably dressed. You never see them in sloppy sweats and worn-out sneakers with their hair in a bun, or having gained a pound or 35 since they're too busy to go to the gym, you know, like normal, hard-working women sometimes look like (especially if they're busy taking care of a family). Current media does allow for strong, positive female role models...as long as she fits that pencil skirt very well and wears 3 1/2-inch heels.

There are a few female lead characters who don't fit the typical standard of attractiveness, but they are still quite attractive by non-media standards (America Ferrera in Ugly Betty, for example).

[Roberts]

As a generally assertive female, I have observed that it tends to be off-putting to people for me to know what I want and go after it. I don't run over people, but (especially in the arena of dating) assertive women are "pushy" and "clingy."

Well that'd be confusing and disappointing for you. Must get really frustrating.

Personally, I find assertiveness in women to be an incredibly attractive quality *shrug*.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Well that's just confusing and disappointing. That must be really frustrating.

Personally, I find assertiveness in women to be an incredibly attractive quality *shrug*.

I feel as if you're projecting your standards of preferred male and female behaviors onto us. While some men find a woman like that attractive, other men find this as unattractive.

We're all radically different and no personality type is objectively better than another. What works for you may not work for me.

[Roberts]

I feel as if you're projecting your standards of preferred male and female behaviors onto us..

I'm sorry you feel that way, because I'm not.

I'm projecting my standards upon myself. That's why I said 'personally'.

[Yuki-Anne]

*sigh* Here we go again. Can we stop overreacting to poor Roberts?

[Dr.Faust]

I have a qustion why do girls make fun of guys for watching porn but then they go right around and read nasty "romance" novles like Zane or Shisty. I mean its basicly the same thing

[Atria35]

I have a qustion why do girls make fun of guys for watching porn but then they go right around and read nasty "romance" novles like Zane or Shisty. I mean its basicly the same thing

I think the difference is that porn is specifically made to be titillating sexually, while books like Sheisty may by sexually titillating, it's original intent probably wasn't to be (it was to tell a story), and isn't necessarily sex-driven.

It's like the difference between porn and nude art.

EDIT: I'm just supposing, here, as I have not read those particular books. But as I have read books with sex in them, I'm extrapolating off of those.

[Dr.Faust]

trust me i've read the books its basicly just stryotypes and sex. but i do see your point form you current persptive.

[TopazRaven]

I have a qustion why do girls make fun of guys for watching porn but then they go right around and read nasty "romance" novles like Zane or Shisty. I mean its basicly the same thing

Honestly, I agree with you. I just read my first real romance novel the other day and had to resist the urge to throw it against the wall. The main characters knew each other for like 10 minutes and the guy was all like, "oh yeah I'ma hit that and she gonna have my babies, lol." Then they 'fell deeply in love' within three days. That sure is relistic! The book was full of steryotypes and wasted two long chapters on sex scenes that could have been used for character development or given more time for introduction of the other characters who are only mentioned for like 5 minutes or the author could have used those pages to just further the plot. The ending was rushed, not everything was explained and I dispised the leading male. Now I remember why I don't read romances novels. I'll leave that to my mom.

[Atria35]

trust me i've read the books its basicly just stryotypes and sex. but i do see your point form you current persptive.

Honestly, I agree with you. I just read my first real romance novel the other day and had to resist the urge to throw it against the wall. The main characters knew each other for like 10 minutes and the guy was all like, "oh yeah I'ma hit that and she gonna have my babies, lol." Then they 'fell deeply in love' within three days. That sure is relistic! The book was full of steryotypes and wasted two long chapters on sex scenes that could have been used for character development or given more time for introduction of the other characters who are only mentioned for like 5 minutes or the author could have used those pages to just further the plot. The ending was rushed, not everything was explained and I dispised the leading male. Now I remember why I don't read romances novels. I'll leave that to my mom.

That just means that it's badly written. I can think of quite a few other books I've read that are badly written that don't have sex in them. I'm sure that you can, too. The difference between those and romance novels is that in romance novels, the romance is the primary component.

Romance novels get away with being badly written a lot more than other books do, I think, because the people who read them aren't necessarily looking for a good story- they're looking for a fantasy romance, something that they can dream about happening while knowing realistically that it's silly and stupid. It's not that much different from people who read fantasy novels- you know that what's happening is silly, but you still would like to jump into the book and actually have the adventures.

[shooraijin]

There's a reason such novels are called "potboilers" -- they make the author a living without significant literary pretense (if any). But it is a tremendously unrealistic view of romance.

[Yamamaya]

I once heard that women write more erotic novels than men. Might not be true, but it certainly makes sense if you believe that men are more visual and women are more aural.

Hollywood isn't a good place to look for normal women. The majority of them are either extremely attractive or had enough work done so that they fufill hollywood's standards.

Also a very assertive woman is a turn off for me, but that's probably because I'm not an incredible assertive person either. Very assertive women can seem intimidating to males. For example, a guy may think, "Whoa, that girl is aggressive. I wouldn't stand a chance. She'd probably blow me off."

[Yuki-Anne]

That's why I've given up on being assertive, and kind of part of what led to me giving up on romance in general. I have no idea how to act, but I feel like it's such a delicate balancing act and I'm sick of trying. Because like I said, assertiveness in women apparently quite off-putting.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Sorry guys, I wasn't trying to make offend anyone. You all make some very good points. I guess I was too quick to assume things.
As for assertive women, I'm not attracted to them either but that's just who I am. Still, there's nothing wrong with assertive women as long as they're not the man-hater type who walk all over guys (sadly all too common). That sort of behaviour's not attractive in the least.

[Yamamaya]

That's why I've given up on being assertive, and kind of part of what led to me giving up on romance in general. I have no idea how to act, but I feel like it's such a delicate balancing act and I'm sick of trying. Because like I said, assertiveness in women apparently quite off-putting.

Well it depends on what type or how extreme the assertive behavior. Most guys don't mind women who know what they want and have the spunk to do it. However, if it becomes too extreme or if the woman appears crazily aggressive, then it's definitely a turn off for me and other men.

The problem is with being assertive with both guys and gals is that it can make you appear arrogant and aggressive. I'm not really helping sorry.

[Atria35]

Okay, this might be a stupid question, but.... can the same thing be said for smart? Do guys find smart girls intimidating?

[Psycho Molos]

I think so however I adore them :-P

[Cognitive Gear]

That's why I've given up on being assertive, and kind of part of what led to me giving up on romance in general. I have no idea how to act, but I feel like it's such a delicate balancing act and I'm sick of trying. Because like I said, assertiveness in women apparently quite off-putting.

Okay, this might be a stupid question, but.... can the same thing be said for smart? Do guys find smart girls intimidating?

Different guys have different opinions on what is attractive. I know plenty of guys who would love a girl to be assertive and take the first step in a relationship. I know plenty of guys who like smart girls. Others like other things.

In the short term, sure, high school and early college aged guys generally want to flirt with and have short term flings with dumb, passive women. Not all of them, but a great deal of them. The question that you ladies need to ask yourselves about this is: "If the guy won't like me for who I am, and instead wants a dumbed-down, safe-bet girl, is he really worth my time?"

Usually the answer is no.

This goes for everyone, really. Be someone that you like, and other people will like you too.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Yes, it really does vary from guy to guy. I like smart girls, as long as they're not arrogant about their intelligence (goes for anyone really) but they don't seem to like me.

[Yamamaya]

Okay, this might be a stupid question, but.... can the same thing be said for smart? Do guys find smart girls intimidating?

No intelligence is a turn on for me.

[Nate]

I like...um...girls.

[Hansha]

I like...um...girls.

No way!...I like guys!...we're like opposites or something!

[Ante Bellum]

I like girls. And guys. You know, the human race. They're pretty cool for the most part.

[Nate]

No way!...I like guys!...we're like opposites or something!

:p

I meant it in the sense that everyone was like "Well I like non-aggressive girls." "I like smart girls."

I just like girls.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Nate, it's good to be a little picky.

[Hansha]

:p

I meant it in the sense that everyone was like "Well I like non-aggressive girls." "I like smart girls."

I just like girls.

you mean you don't have any preferences at all? you have to have some...

[Nate]

Let's not get into my preferences. <.<;;

Besides preferences are only that. I prefer spicy chicken sandwiches to hamburgers but you know sometimes I just want a burger.

And I'm a LITTLE picky! I don't want girls who used to be dudes. Or are in a nursing home. Or elementary school. But aside from that? It's all good.

...why am I always comparing women to food anyway?

[Davidizer13]

:p

I meant it in the sense that everyone was like "Well I like non-aggressive girls." "I like smart girls."

I just like girls.

I'm pretty much the same way. I mean, I have things that I prefer in a woman, like being smart/artistic, easy on the eyes, witty, having a taste for/putting up with my favorite kinds of media, etc., but really, I'm not picky. It's like, one out of five or six ain't bad, y'know? They're all still girls.

Of course, I've never been in a serious relationship, so I have no idea what I'm talking about. Maybe I'm just slowly narrowing the (nearly limitless) field.

[Nate]

They're all still girls.

A wonderful and simple way of putting it.

You are a man after my own heart.