What can we do?

[ChristianKitsune]

Hey guys I have a question, The other day I was working on an art piece when a classmate came in and suddenly started talking about "religion" and God. It was just her and I in the room, and she started talking about all the hypocrites that called themselves Christians but turned around and lived exactly like she did, and looked down on her for it.

We had a great conversation, and I was okay with answering her questions. But her story broke my heart... She's obviously been hurt by people who claim to follow Christ. And I tried to tell her that they are either very new to the faith, or are just learning how to grow up themselves and that a lot of Christians wouldn't treat her that way. Our conversation lasted about an hour and a half, so I won't bring up everything that was asked.

I guess I've never heard this in person before. Sure, I've read it online at various forums, I've seen it on TV. But I've never really encountered anyone who's been treated this way by those who claim to have the love of Christ in them you know?

So I know that I can love this girl and answer her questions, but what can we do as a whole to stop this lie that is going around? To help other Christians know that how we treat people, how we act is being watched and studied? I never ever want to hurt anyone, or "judge" them...but lives are at stake so... yah.

What would you guys do in a situation like that? If you saw someone you know is a Christian treating someone badly? OR if someone came up to you and had a conversation like the one I had...

[Cognitive Gear]

This is a difficult situation. The reality is that there are many Christians that use the Bible to try to justify their own prejudice and hatred. These people also tend to be the most outspoken, and the most active about what they want. Hatred is an incredibly powerful force when it comes to getting people motivated to action, unfortunately.

As for how to respond to people who have been hurt by Christians, I have found that the most effective way is usually to spend time with them, come to understand them and their pain. This usually results in them understanding that what these Christians did was not as a result of following Christ (or at least, that there are many types of Christians) and in me offering them an apology and asking for forgiveness. I may not have done anything myself, but as someone who also identifies as a follower of Christ, I feel like I have to bear a piece of the responsibility for the harm done.

On one occasion, the apology ended with the person crying on my shoulder, grateful for the effort. It's one of those moments where you get the chance to see God working. It's pretty magnificent.

[Atria35]

I've seen it happen. One of my best friends was dumped by her very Christian boyfriend who came from a very Christian family... because she was black and they didn't approve. They were in no way 'new to the faith' or whatnot.

CG is right that there are those who will use the Bible to justify their hatred and be two-faced.

I'm very... zen about it. I say that there are mean idiots in all religions- you just hear about Christianity more often because it's the biggest one in America, but if she went to the Middle East or India, there would be just as many. And that for every mean idiot, there's a genuinely good follower of that faith.

[Rusty Claymore]

I think as Christians it is our duty to confront the offending brother privately. Those who twist Scripture can be reproved easily, because the Bible is very clear on how we are to behave.
As for someone who has a history of problems with self-proclaimed Christians, we can Biblically explain where those people were wrong and how they actually went against the Words of God.
Ultimately, trying to live the way God has directed to the best of your ability will already set you apart from those who blurr the lines. Your friend already believed you were different, because by the sound of things she didn't include you in with the hypocrites. If you continue to give the best you can, I think your friend may get to the point where she actually confronts those hypocrites because she "knows a real christian". (Not to say these others are not really christians, but having a non-christian tell you that would be a pretty harsh wake-up call. n.n')

Judgeing between good and evil is a nescessary part of the Christian walk. A lot of people confuse the two meanings for Judgement in scripture. The most common meaning is "condemn" which places the condemner on a higher plane then the condemned. The other meaning is closer to "discernment" which is to observe and classify. Whereas it is God's place to condemn, to condemn would be to usurp God. But if we discern that our brother is doing harm to someone, it is nescessary out of Love to confront them. They might not be aware of what they are really doing, and to refrain from confrontation and allowing the harm to continue is not Loving towards our brother, and certainly not beneficial to those being harmed.
That's how I see it, anyways! n.n'

[Nate]

Now you see why I don't tell anyone I'm Christian. Not right away at least. I'd rather a person got to know me, and then one day when I mentioned it they might say "You're a Christian? I never knew!" And then I'd say "Well, if I'd said I was a Christian, you'd probably think I was one of those Christians who did this and said this and tried to defend this." And then they'd probably go "Yeah." And I'd say "Well, the word has gained such a negative reputation, I didn't want you to associate me with that."

Then it could go into "But if you act completely different from every other Christian, why are you a Christian?" Then I could honestly share the message of Christ with them.

[Rusty Claymore]

"You're a Christian? I never knew!"

Ouch, that would really burn. XD

[TopazRaven]

In all honesty I'm a little reluctant saying I'm a Christian sometimes as well. Not to non-believers or those of other religions or even my family/friends, but to fellow Christians. I guess I'm afraid they're going to rip me to pieces and pick me apart or something. I've talked to a few unfriendly Christians before who would like nothing better then to make you feel like the scum of the earth. I need to get over it I know, but...I'm over sensitive and I want people to like not hate me.

[Peanut]

For me, the window to not mention I'm a Christian to people who've been hurt by Christians in the past is rapidly closing. When the answer to one of the typical questions people ask to break the ice and get to know you better is "I'm in ministry," that option isn't usable. However, I've found that the other principle that Nate and others have mentioned (hanging around with them and not acting like a complete jerk) works pretty well. At the very least, they won't be able to say "Every Christian is a horrible person and a hypocrite."

[Yuki-Anne]

I'm with Peanut. As a missionary, I kind of don't have many options. I usually tell people I teach English at a local church and let the conversation go where it will.

Here, I get a lot of people who have for the most part never even heard the message of Christ. They have this nebulous idea about Christianity, but they don't know anything concrete about it.

But I tend to let people know I'm a Christian, then be myself and let my life show them I'm not scary.

[Nate]

Ouch, that would really burn. XD

Yes, it would really burn other Christians that my loving and accepting behavior made me seem like I wasn't Christian. But if they want to get burned like that, I can't help it.

[ShiroiHikari]

Yes, it would really burn other Christians that my loving and accepting behavior made me seem like I wasn't Christian.

This makes me sad.

[Furen]

I agree to a tee with Mo, though I also agree with Nate that it sucks when people say "WHAT?!?! You're a Christian? ...But you're so... not horrible." I feel both ashamed and proud at the same time, ashamed the name "we" have done to ourself, but proud that I can say "Hey, someone can now say they know one Christian that isn't a total jerk, maybe there's more to this than their 'Religion'."

[armeck]

I'm always quick to say i'm a christian but, i often where my blink 182 shirt or hoodie and tend to act far from triditional so most people don't assume i'm judgemental. I'm also often feel that christians look down on me for who i am...

[Hiryu]

I consider these hypocrites like the sadducees. They "follow the law very well", but they are without any sort of love, so their very presence is only like the clanging of a gong. But you, you show your concern by listening and answering her as best as you can. Your love is like the healing salve, the neosporin to put it plainly.

Keep it up.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Being Christian and embodying love requires us to be more than nice or friendly. Christ never lived to seek fairness or balance, but instead he transcended it. We really have to adopt an attitude of total selflessness. Really, we have to do our best to stop living for ourselves. There's really only one kind of idolatry nowadays, and that idol is our selves.

Similar to what Cog said, loving people means we make the effort to get to know people and express such a love to them. Maybe people don't know us because many Christians only congregate with other Christians. Instead of looking at non-Christians as "entity that needs to be saved", what if some Christians viewed them as people who deserve dignity and respect? People will always judge us, so giving an impression of "clean living" won't change anybody's hearts. If anything, it only makes us seem more judgmental. So it's not a matter of if we smoke or drink or some other "worldly" thing which some Christians look down upon. After all, Jesus himself ate with prostitutes and tax collectors. Maybe we should go spend some real time with "horrible" people too. Maybe we should get a drink with a non-religious friend at a bar and just be with and love them (Lest we're causing another believer to stumble. Ethics can get tricky here, I suppose).

Only then, I think, is when people will begin to see us as different.

[Sammy Boy]

... her story broke my heart... She's obviously been hurt by people who claim to follow Christ. And I tried to tell her that they are either very new to the faith, or are just learning how to grow up themselves and that a lot of Christians wouldn't treat her that way. Our conversation lasted about an hour and a half, so I won't bring up everything that was asked.

* snipped to save space *

So I know that I can love this girl and answer her questions, but what can we do as a whole to stop this lie that is going around? To help other Christians know that how we treat people, how we act is being watched and studied? I never ever want to hurt anyone, or "judge" them...but lives are at stake so... yah.

What would you guys do in a situation like that? If you saw someone you know is a Christian treating someone badly? OR if someone came up to you and had a conversation like the one I had...

I think I am in a slightly similar situation. I know some people who are into collecting toys (i.e. action figures). We have some shared interests in this regard, and sometimes I try to make the effort to meet them.

The thing is, they usually meet on Sundays, so it means when I do meet them, I need to skip church. I've found that a few of them are hostile towards religion in general, and a few have a dislike of Christianity. As far as I can tell, there is only one other guy in the group who is a Christian.

Sometimes they talk about their dislike of religion and/or Christianity. Instead of debating or arguing with them, I currently try to simply be friends with them. I think Yancey once wrote that nobody ever became a Christian because they lost an argument.

I believe understanding and love are the keys to changing the way people feel about us. As for your second question, if I see another Christian treating a person badly, it would depend on how well I know the Christian. Even though we are all fellow brothers and sisters, I've found that unless you know a person well, there is still some sort of barrier between you and him/her.

Having said that, I would try to "gentle" confront the Christian and point out what I think his/her fault, but in a way that includes suggestions, since I don't want to come across as accusing or judgmental.

[Saiya~Jin]

There are always going to be hypocrites in a belief system, no matter what one you're talking about. If the person can tell that those people are being hypocritical, then they must also have at least some idea of what Christianity really teaches. And that should be enough for them to make their own decision on the matter.


Just because a murderer tells you not to kill someone, doesn't mean it isn't still good advice.

[K. Ayato]

My pastor touched on this yesterday during his message. He talked about bringing people to Jesus (like the residents of Decapolis did in Matthew 15 for those who needed physical healing). First thing he said was "Don't be weird", then he gave some suggestions.

1. Invite them to eat (and pay for the entire bill). I know nowadays this isn't always easy, but in any case, allow for an environment where there are no barriers between you and the person.

2. Talk about them, not you. This helps them see you're genuinely interested in getting to know them better.

3. Invite them to church. Worst that could happen is them saying no, but even then, if you go out of your way to show them you care and not be "weird" around them, I believe at the very least, you'll have left a mark in their lives .

[rocklobster]

This right here is why I facepalm whenever I hear about people like Fred Phelps, Jack Chick, or any of the so-called "Christians" who think they speak for every one of us. You're ruining God's plan! I'd rather people associate us with Mother Theresa, John Paul II, or Martin Luther King. You know--people who actually are/were true examples of what it means to be a Christian.

[J.D3]

Oh boy, where to even begin?

I've heard much about the actions of 'religious', judgemental or down-right nutty 'Christians'.
Actually, a kind of funny but sad story, a pastor recently told us at Church about an incident where he was innocently walking through a large mall in the city when he was suddenly jumped by someone from a group of so-called 'Christians' who preach solely on judgement, damnation & hellfire (he called them 'hellfire Christians', who seem to be regulars actually ).
Basically, they jumped him & started interrogating him on his sins, like 'have you ever lied?', & of course the pastor responded yes everytime (everyone, barring Jesus, has sinned of course!) to which they'd then condemn him of being as as such, and then ironically finished off by saying 'THEN YOU NEED THE LOVE OF JESUS IN YOUR LIFE!!!'

I thought it was very telling that these people who claimed to be Christians failed to even realise who they might be talking to, and further to that, completely lacked discernment & sensitivity when approaching people in this case!

That's awesome that you were able to witness to your friend like that though, and without resorting to arguing or just a robotic, religious spurting of facts, etc. too!
Yeah, I think the best way is what folks have been saying here, treating folks with compassion & intentionality while maintaining some wisdom so as to not completely whack people over the head with the fact that we're a Christian, or with 'Christianity'. Hmm, much like that verse "be as innocent as a dove, but shrewd as a snake", and of course "do unto others..."

Heaps good to hear Kitsune, and in fact, that has actually encouraged me in my struggles with trying to be a good example of what God's love is/does in a person's life & in talking about these things to those around me, even if they may have negative/warped views of God & faith (gotta appropriatley show them what it's really all about!)

Cheers for this thread, C.K & all!

[Atria35]

This right here is why I facepalm whenever I hear about people like Fred Phelps, Jack Chick, or any of the so-called "Christians" who think they speak for every one of us.

Hw do you know they're talking about those people? There are regular, everyday people who behave like that- it's not confined to a few big-talking, fairly well-known names.... as much as people would like to think. And I've met those everyday Joes who talk and think like Fred Philps and Jack Chick- they're out there.

[Nate]

Yep, Jack Chick has a very large following, and while they might not protest military funerals there's plenty of people who agree with what Phelps preaches. While the prominent, famous people are a big reason for the bad name of Christianity, most regular people don't do a whole lot to dispel the image those guys put forth.

Also I wouldn't wanna be associated with JPII or Mother Theresa but...that's just me. XD Being associated with MLK...I wouldn't like so much either. Not because I don't think King is a great man...he is. But as a white person who has always been privileged and has never had to struggle like King did, never had to put my life on the line like he had to, I don't feel I have earned that right. I will continue to fight for the equality of all people like he did, but I don't think I deserve to be compared to a man like him.

[bkilbour]

hm....
you know, every time someone tells me that, because I'm a Christian, I'm a hyprocrite, that's when I usually tell them that everyone is a hypocrite. The Bible says "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."
Anyone, Christian or no, shouldn't be surprised at that.

So, my only option is to be open about it, but be the nicest guy I can (although with some people it proves too difficult for me to deal with them normally, so I avoid them).

As for the prejudice thing... people need to realize that it's not always fear or blind hate, but can also be pain, that leads to racist thoughts. I struggle every day with them. Does that make me unsaved? Does that mean that I can't try my best to love people that happen to share a color with those who have stabbed me in the back? They've brought my family nothing but harm, but does that mean that I'm going to act on those thoughts? Nope. But we've all got our thorns in our sides.

Those Christians who somehow think that a brother is a hypocrite for having to struggle with racism, or pornography, or smoking, or whatever, while hiding it because of shame....
well, they probably need to remove the plank from their eye.

[Htom Sirveaux]

what can we do as a whole to stop this lie that is going around?

What can we do to stop a brick wall from getting painted with an oncoming motorcyclist?

[Sparx00]

Well, if I caught a fellow christian treating somebody badly, I'd catch him on it and tell him it's not right. As christians, we need to support one another, not just go, "Whoo! You're saved!" thrust a bible in the new guy's hands and tell him to go read it and spread the good news "(whatever that means)" to the world. It doesn't work that way. Thats why we go to church and attend the training sessions.

If somebody who was treated badly like your friend came up to me and started talking to me, I'd trust that God would give me the right words to say in the situation and then go on to invite him to church when he's ready. Also, when s/he goes to church with you, be there for them.

[aliveinHim]

When people ask me what religion I am, I say that I'm not a religion but I am a follower of Christ. I've met Christians who admitted to me that they're only nominal Christians and could care less about being in a relationship with Jesus. Some people think I'm weird because I don't do a lot of things the world does (my daddy's friends sometimes ask me if I have a boyfriend or I'm into Twilight and all that worldly junk). Some kids who I hang out with at the pool think I'm weird too (weird as in not a participant in worldly things). I find it an encouragement when people see Christ in me instead of a wretched, sinful human being. I love it when I have the opportunity to share the Gospel with people but I hate it when other "Christians" destroy that opportunity.

As believers, we should be above reproach. We shouldn't let the world look at us as equals and we should also not let other brothers and sisters in Christ doubt our salvation. Our speech should be clean and our outward appearances should be wholesome. Even though man looks at the outward and God looks at the heart, the outward is a reflection of the inward. Our outward should reflect Christ.

[Rusty Claymore]

What can we do to stop a brick wall from getting painted with an oncoming motorcyclist?

You can solve anything with the proper application of explosives.

[Htom Sirveaux]

You can solve anything with the proper application of explosives.

Htom Sirveaux likes this.

[ShiroiHikari]

As believers, we should be above reproach. We shouldn't let the world look at us as equals and we should also not let other brothers and sisters in Christ doubt our salvation.

But we're never going to be above reproach. If we could achieve that on our own, then what good did Christ's sacrifice do?

We shouldn't let the world look at us as equals? But we are equals. We're all human beings. That's why so many people hate Christians-- because many of us act like we're better than everyone else! Nobody likes pretentious people. (Except maybe other pretentious people.)

As for other people doubting our salvation, well, we can't control the thoughts of others. If someone thinks you aren't saved or whatever, that's probably their problem, not yours.

I'm not saying Christians should go around sinning and then repent on Sundays. But people's standards for "sin" vary widely and the only way to not be judged a sinner by other people is to go be a nun, or a monk or something. But I don't think that's a very practical way to say "HEY SEE THIS PROVES I DON'T SIN" especially since nobody on this planet is capable of being sinless anyway.

[Nate]

I think the problem is that while many Christians will say "Oh yeah I don't think I'm better than anyone else," they go out and contradict that statement by the way they act and the things they do. They impose their will on others, they try to control other people's lives...these are not the actions of someone who thinks that they are equal to or even lesser than anyone else. These are the actions of someone who thinks that they are superior to others, that they know better than you do how to live your life.

God has the right to tell people how to live, because He is God. Fellow human beings do NOT have the right to tell other people how to live, or even treat them as second class citizens, denying them rights and freedoms, because we are not as high as God. And that is why I am bothered so greatly by this.

There is a logical disconnect and great hypocrisy when someone says "I think that I am not better than you. Now do exactly what I say because you're living your life completely wrong and I'm here to tell you exactly what to do to be as good as me." This is the ultimate example of what Jesus said, telling someone to remove the speck from their eye while ignoring the plank in their own.