Sell all your stuff and give the money to the poor?

[TheMewster]

Hey, it be TheMewster again. In the Gospel of Mark, Jesus talks to a rich man who was asking how he can inherit eternal life. Jesus said for him to sell all his belongings and give the money to the poor. This gets me depressed and confused, because it's impossible to live in this modern world without possessions and plus King David, said to be one of the Godliest men alive, had a lot of wealth. So what is the hidden moral meaning of this passage? Does it mean we have to sell all our possessions to get to Heaven? I'm sure Jesus was implying more than just the literal context, but still.....thanks and God bless you all.

[TopazRaven]

From what I understand Jesus was talking about people of his time who where to literally follow him. You didn't need your belongings when you where with Jesus, so they have should given them to people who did need it. When you had the chance to actually walk with Jesus all the riches of the world must seem poor in comparison. Or I could be completley wrong about that, I'm sure the other members can give you a better explination.

[Yamamaya]

I've always looked at it as you should be willing to sell all your possessions to follow Christ, similar to how you shouldn't make wealth into an idol.

[Hansha]

He said this after the rich man asked him how to get to heaven and Jesus at first said follow the commandments. To which the rich man responded he had followed all of them since childhood. This was of course not true and shows the man's arrogance. Jesus was pointing out one thing he new the rich man could not do, sell all his possessions. The rich man thought he could get to heaven by his own means. Jesus was showing him he couldn't. Sadly, instead of asking Jesus for help, he just walked away sad. If your wealth is standing between you and Jesus then yes, it has to go. But even Paul talks about in the NT knowing how to live with much and with little. The wealth itself is not the point. things between you and Jesus is.

[Peanut]

I've always read that as Jesus testing to see how willing this individual was to actually follow him. So, I pretty much agree with Yamamaya. This verse isn't so much saying that we should be willing to sell everything we own and give it to the poor but instead be willing to. I'd go one step further though and say that if you are willing to you probably should be living under your means as well and tithing at least. Just saying "I'm willing to give up all my possessions" while living a life of excess is hypocrisy.

[Hansha]

Oh, and if you are supposed to give up something, even if it is big, Jesus will equip you to do it. You must depend on him and give it up to him though.^^

[ShiroiHikari]

From what I understand Jesus was talking about people of his time who where to literally follow him. You didn't need your belongings when you where with Jesus, so they have should given them to people who did need it.

This is how I interpret it as well.

[K. Ayato]

I agree with what Hansha said. Also, after the young man claimed to have kept the commandments since his youth (which is impossible), he asked "What do I lack?". In recent years I've looked at this passage with the idea that this rich young man wanted to get eternal life the easy way. To me, Jesus was driving home the point that following Him wasn't going to be easy (remember he said the Son of man has no place to lay His head) and that it came with a cost.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

God is the true owner of everything we are and possess. We should sacrifice all we own and are, to him. And yes, our hope in Christ surpasses all earthly possessions. Also, we are to rely on God and trust in Him always.

[Hansha]

I agree with what Hansha said. Also, after the young man claimed to have kept the commandments since his youth (which is impossible), he asked "What do I lack?". In recent years I've looked at this passage with the idea that this rich young man wanted to get eternal life the easy way. To me, Jesus was driving home the point that following Him wasn't going to be easy (remember he said the Son of man has no place to lay His head) and that it came with a cost.

Yeah, It was kind of like he thought. "Salvation, well, I'll take care of that today so I can check it off the list." He didn't know what he was getting himself into. He didn't "count the costs" as it is always put.

[fermy6]

Lets not forget that after Jesus said its easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven....He was then asked who can go to Heaven.....and He replied that with man this is impossible, but with God Nothing is impossible......So I guess this would mean that through Christ even a rich person can go to Heaven

[uc pseudonym]

I wouldn't condemn anyone for giving a good answer to the question and a legitimate interpretation of the passage. However, I am always bothered by how quickly Christians rush to address verses like this. Because most of us are rich on a world scale and we don't want to change. We're comfortable with the religion we have (whether or not we want to call it a religion) and like the rich young ruler we want that to be enough.

This passage isn't usually interpreted as being a literal command for us, sure. I am much less sympathetic with anyone who wants to explain away Luke 6:24, for one example. And I at least do not feel comfortable when I read the parable in Matthew 25:31-46 because I know how many are hungry or thirsty or a stranger and I have done little to help them.

So no, I'm not saying everyone needs to sell everything and give to the poor. The world needs ethical businesspeople more than it needs saints. But I think when we rush to reassure ourselves that of course Jesus wasn't talking to us and of course we don't need to give up anything, we become the rich young ruler in this passage. Except we walk away happy, convinced of our righteousness instead of shown our guilt.

[Nanao]

I think maybe it is less what we give, but more where the heart is. David did have a lot of wealth, but he was "a man after God's own heart." In other words, what is more important to me? It really is an uncomfortable question to answer honestly.

I really like what uc just said above. I know that I have been guilty of not helping people when I should. In my opinion, because we are "rich" by the world's standards, it is our responsibility to take care of the poor and those who are less fortunate. That is just my personal conviction though ^_^

[Hansha]

I wouldn't condemn anyone for giving a good answer to the question and a legitimate interpretation of the passage. However, I am always bothered by how quickly Christians rush to address verses like this. Because most of us are rich on a world scale and we don't want to change. We're comfortable with the religion we have (whether or not we want to call it a religion) and like the rich young ruler we want that to be enough.

This passage isn't usually interpreted as being a literal command for us, sure. I am much less sympathetic with anyone who wants to explain away Luke 6:24, for one example. And I at least do not feel comfortable when I read the parable in Matthew 25:31-46 because I know how many are hungry or thirsty or a stranger and I have done little to help them.

So no, I'm not saying everyone needs to sell everything and give to the poor. The world needs ethical businesspeople more than it needs saints. But I think when we rush to reassure ourselves that of course Jesus wasn't talking to us and of course we don't need to give up anything, we become the rich young ruler in this passage. Except we walk away happy, convinced of our righteousness instead of shown our guilt.

I know what you mean about comfort. I wanna be like Paul in this passage. I think riches are a challenge just like ( well, not just like) poverty in a small way.

"I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need." Philippians 4:12 ESV

[TheMewster]

Thanks guys! That helped a lots!

[That Dude]

Ayato, Hansha and UC said it very well.

One thing to remember is in most cases Jesus was addressing the heart issue. If wealth is what gets in the way of your walk with Christ than you need to a point where it isn't what's consuming you. Same with anything that gets in the way. If anime becomes more important than God to you it's become and idol and God is a jealous who says that "there can be only one!"

So basically Jesus is specifically addressing the ruler in the manner that Hansha laid out, but was also addressing the issue of working your way into heaven, which is what will always happen if you aren't following Christs words. You will default into earning your salvation, which a major part of the bible speaks out against.

[TheMewster]

Thanks. Sorry to derail my own thread, but what are the signs something has become an idol? I'm still trying to figure out my personal convictions and what it means to me. God bless you guys for actually reading my threads!

[TopazRaven]

I asked a similer question to this before in one of my threads. An idol is anything that is more important to you or that you love more then God and I think it's something we all struggle with as humans. I know I do.

[Furen]

Lets not forget that after Jesus said its easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven....

Extra little fact here, when Jesus said the eye of a needle, he wasn't talking about a sewing needle (which many including myself have thought) but rather a hole in a wall somewhere in Israel (Jerusalem in fact), this "Eye of the needle" was a small path where camels could indeed squeeze through, but it was much harder for them than people as the people are thinner than the camels.

So Jesus was saying that everyone may get into heaven if they have their priorities straight, but that man did not and walked away.

As for the sign about idols question:
1. You start thinking about it at any given moment and everything can be related to it
2. It starts becoming all you think about
3. You don't want to do anything but _________ (said task)
4. You get defensive and say stuff like "I can quit any time I like." when you know you can't

There's more things, but that's the ones to show you're overboard.

[Nate]

Extra little fact here, when Jesus said the eye of a needle, he wasn't talking about a sewing needle (which many including myself have thought) but rather a hole in a wall somewhere in Israel (Jerusalem in fact), this "Eye of the needle" was a small path where camels could indeed squeeze through, but it was much harder for them than people as the people are thinner than the camels.

That's an urban legend:

http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm

It's supposed to be ridiculous, a camel going through the eye of a sewing needle? That's why it works so well. It's not like Jesus hasn't ever said something like that before. Remember the "plank in your own eye" verse?

Besides, as the link says, an architect in those days would have to be an idiot of the highest degree to make a gate barely wide enough for a camel to fit through.

[Rusty Claymore]

@Ren: Debateable. The imediate verse after has people asking, "Who then can be saved?" Followed by: "The things which are impossible with men are possible with God." If camels could fit through, it wouldn't be impossible, and the following comments and statement wouldn't have occured.
Overall the lesson is that salvation is a work of God, and without God, man might as well just sit around threading camles. It'll at least keep em occupied for eternity. XD

EDIT: Aww... I always take too long and someone finishes their post before me. XP

[Furen]

okay (wow twice in one day XD)
thanks for that, I'll try to get to the bottom of this one, that's what church is for right

[Hansha]

Gracefully said Furen

[TopazRaven]

As for the sign about idols question:
1. You start thinking about it at any given moment and everything can be related to it
2. It starts becoming all you think about
3. You don't want to do anything but _________ (said task)
4. You get defensive and say stuff like "I can quit any time I like." when you know you can't

There's more things, but that's the ones to show you're overboard.

Eh, I'm in trouble. The first one often happens when I'm into a new series. I'm not sure how that's really a sign something is an idol though...

[TheMewster]

I'm with you Topaz-san. I don't get how #1 can mean something is an idol. I start thinking about all sorts of things and surely THEY'RE not idols. Otherwise, Bible stories and morals would be my idol. I try to keep something from consuming my thoughts by keeping various things in my thoughts to balance them out. And Topaz's thread on idols did help me a lot. I feel like God spoke to me through it! God bless you wonderful people! And #3 can happen with all things depending on the moment, so I hope you mean constantly only wanting to do that.

[TopazRaven]

Yay, I has support! Thanks. I know right? I think about bible stories all the time to. Sometimes I wish I could draw so I could make a bible story manga. xD

[ShiroiHikari]

As for the sign about idols question:
1. You start thinking about it at any given moment and everything can be related to it
2. It starts becoming all you think about
3. You don't want to do anything but _________ (said task)
4. You get defensive and say stuff like "I can quit any time I like." when you know you can't

I don't know if I necessarily agree with this. Many people go through phases where they're mildly obsessed with something new and exciting, and that mild obsession usually quiets down after a time. I don't think I'd classify that as "idolatry". For example, I'm a huge Gundam fan, as most of you know. I like talking about it and thinking about it. I don't bow down and pray to the lifesize Gundam statue, though.

[TheMewster]

Yeah, and btw, I can casually avoid most things, which is what matters to make sure it isn't an idol, but I mostly struggle with avoiding things when I'm trying to avoid them/fasting from them.