Inception

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Inception

Postby Cognitive Gear » Fri May 07, 2010 2:28 pm

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Director: Christopher Nolan
Cast: Leonardo DiCaprio, Cillian Murphy, Ken Watanabe, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Marion Cotillard, Ellen Page, Tom Hardy, Tom Berenger, Dileep Rao and Michael Caine.
Release Date: US: July 16, 2010
Premise (small spoilers?):

[quote="wikipedia"]Dom Cobb (Leonardo DiCaprio) is a skilled thief, the absolute best in the dangerous art of extraction, stealing valuable secrets from deep within the subconscious during the dream state, when the mind is at its most vulnerable. Cobb’]

Teaser

Direct link to full trailer. (Right click, save as. Then open the downloaded file in a browser or in VLC)
Temporary streaming link for trailer.

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Right now it kinda looks like Paprika meets Dark City and The Matrix. I definitely want to see this one.
[font="Tahoma"][SIZE="2"]"It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things."

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Postby Radical Dreamer » Fri May 07, 2010 2:46 pm

Arrrgggg I am so stoked for this movie, and I have been for a while. XD I've seen the teaser a number of times, but I can't get the full trailer to work in VLC for some reason, which is SAD. XD Also, I had NO idea this movie was going to have such a good cast, aside from DiCaprio and a rumored Cillian Murphy. asdf I am so excited for this.

But yeah, Paprika + Dark City + Matrix? Yes please.
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Postby Etoh*the*Greato » Fri May 07, 2010 2:46 pm

How have I never heard of this...? It sounds brilliant!
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Postby Hohenheim » Fri May 07, 2010 3:23 pm

I've known about this movie for a while, and hope it does well. I really enjoyed The Dark Knight, and though I haven't actually seen it, Memento has a great story and theme behind it. If it's a Nolan film, sign me up.:thumbsup:
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Postby ShiroiHikari » Fri May 07, 2010 4:15 pm

That's a heck of a cast, plus Nolan directing? I'm in.
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Postby Warrior 4 Jesus » Fri May 07, 2010 6:12 pm

Oh yeah! Thanks for sharing the link. I've been looking forward to this movie ever since I first heard about it. Christopher Nolan and his brother and Christian Bale in a psychological action/thriller? Awesome!
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Postby Atria35 » Fri May 07, 2010 6:35 pm

Heard about this film-thrilled to see a trailer for it! *on my to-watch list*
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Postby ich1990 » Fri May 07, 2010 6:53 pm

Anything Christopher Nolan directs is on my "to see" list, but after the teaser trailer, this one ranks especially high.
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Postby ClosetOtaku » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:23 pm

Saw it this evening. I think most people on this board will enjoy it.
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Postby Shao Feng-Li » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:39 am

My family went to see it last night while I had to work. I'm hoping to see it Monday XD
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Postby armeck » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:50 am

i will hopefully see it soon!
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Postby LadyRushia » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:51 pm

It freaking blew my mind. This movie is simply amazing and anyone who likes intelligent entertainment would be doing themselves a disservice by not seeing it.
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Postby ich1990 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:59 pm

This movie was so freaking awesome on every level: viscerally, emotionally, intellectually... it just worked. My mouth dropped open because of the mind blowing warped realities even as I was hoping a favorite character would survive his zero-g fight and at the same time my mind was in overdrive trying work out the logic puzzles and alternative scenarios. This continued right up to the very moment it ended. Literally. At times I could only shake my head with amazement.

It is the best thing I have seen since The Dark Knight. If you liked any of Nolan's previous movies, The Matrix, or thought provoking action movies in general, do yourself a favor and watch this movie. Even if you don't like the logic puzzle element of it, watch it anyways because it is so cool.

Now, on to the important things:[spoiler]I will admit straight up that I don't think it is possible to solve this movie. There are just too many unknown variables. That doesn't mean I am not going to try, though. EDIT: Never mind, I have thought through a bunch of possibilities and I am pretty sure I know what is going on now. Q#1 still bothers me though.

Question number 1: Why aren't Cobb and Mal old when they commit suicide on the train tracks? We see (through a flashback) that they get old together within their dream, yet when they finally decide to leave the dream by killing themselves with a train they are young.

Question number 2: How did Cobb and Ariandne (spelling?) get to limbo using the dream device? Even with Cobb creating the dream, the best they should have been able to do is go to a fourth level that closely resembles limbo, having been pulled from Cobb's memory. Even in this recreated limbo, however, the Chinese guy shouldn't have been there because he was in the real limbo. If Cobb and Ariandne really wanted to go to limbo, they should have killed themselves with the defibrillator, rescued the Chinese dude, then had the guy from the third level bring them back up with the defibrillator, like he did with Fischer (I think that is his name, or Scarecrow) and presumably the Chinese dude.

One possibility is that they brought up a projection of the Chinese man from the fake limbo (4th level), which then inhabited his body up in reality. Alternatively, the fourth level is always limbo, which would explain how Cobb and Mal got there in the first place.[/spoiler]I will start with those, but I have a ton more questions. I think am going to be searching the net for a long time trying to figure this out. Man I love this movie.
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Postby LadyRushia » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:11 pm

[SPOILER]Question number 2: How did Cobb and Ariandne (spelling?) get to limbo using the dream device? Even with Cobb creating the dream, the best they should have been able to do is go to a fourth level that closely resembles limbo, having been pulled from Cobb's memory. Even in this recreated limbo, however, the Chinese guy shouldn't have been there because he was in the real limbo. If Cobb and Ariandne really wanted to go to limbo, they should have killed themselves with the defibrillator, rescued the Chinese dude, then had the guy from the third level bring them back up with the defibrillator, like he did with Fischer (I think that is his name, or Scarecrow) and presumably the Chinese dude.[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]I think they were able to do it because they went into Fischer's dream/subconscious, which was in limbo.[/SPOILER]
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Postby Hohenheim » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:20 pm

I just saw it tonight. It really was a great film. The complexity, the effects, and the emotion present in the film all contributed greatly to the final product, not to mention the wonderful cast. Also, echoing the sentiments of others who have reviewed this film, I'll probably need to watch it at least one or two more times before I've gotten as much from it as I can.

A quick aside is that some of the themes reminded me of The Matrix. Don't get me wrong, this was definitely a unique creation from the mind of Christopher Nolan, it's just that I noticed a sort of resonance. In fact, philosophically speaking, one might say that The Matrix asks a question that Inception attempts to answer. May it be said that I found Nolan's answer to be satisfying and enriching.
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Postby ich1990 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:26 pm

LadyRushia (post: 1410098) wrote:[SPOILER]I think they were able to do it because they went into Fischer's dream/subconscious, which was in limbo.[/SPOILER]
Oh, that makes total sense, I don't know why I didn't think of that.
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Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:28 pm

Oh God this movie was just amazing. It's like a friggen meta-movie.

Everyone needs to read these two interpretations. They're VERY interesting.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/board/nest/167024711
[spoiler]The idea of 'Inception' is to be a story crafted in the architecture of the mind - Cobb's mind. What people perceive to be real isn't necessarily so, because the mind can make things appear to be as real as ever. An important thing to remember is the start of the film. Dom Cobb wakes up in a place that we later find out to be limbo – more importantly, Saito's limbo.

What happens next is something that is meaningless the first time a viewer watches the film. Saito is seen handling Cobb's totem (which was a top that he took from Mal while in limbo). At first, this is meaningless. Upon a second viewing, the viewer should realize that everything that happens after this scene (the jump cut to Cobb's attempt at extracting information from Saito, and so on) is something much deeper.

Saito promises to give Cobb the one thing that he wants, and that's to find the way back home. How does he convince Cobb to do this? He tells him to "take a leap of faith." This is another line that goes unnoticed at first. On a second viewing, the viewer should remember that line as something that Mal told Cobb when she jumped off of the building. Is the picture becoming clearer yet?

Cobb seems to appear wherever he needs to go, whether it is Paris, or Mombasa, just like it were a dream. While in Mombasa, Cobb gets chased by anonymous agents (which he perceives to be Cobol agents) through a fantastic action sequence where Cobb escapes the dream-like narrow tunnel and is rescued by none other than Saito. A bit later, Cobb and Saito visit Yusef who brings them into a basement with various figures connected to the dream machine. The idea was for Cobb to experiment with the deep sedative. He does, and when he "wakes up" he tries to use his totem only to be interrupted by Saito. Cobb never does find out if he is in the real world or not. In fact, he hasn’t been yet. He’s been in limbo ever since he got there with Mal. Ever since then, he's been going deeper and deeper to the point where he created Saito as a projection to help him "get back home" - Did you really think Saito can just pick up the phone and make murder charges disappear? No. But, Cobb believes it and thus Saito is used to thrust Cobb further and further into a state of limbo – where at the end of the journey, Cobb truly believes he is with his children after confronting and getting over his projection of Mal.

While in the limbo, Cobb, using Mal's totem, put the idea in her head that she was in the dream world. She was, she just hadn’t realized it yet. What the viewer forgets is that all knowledge of limbo comes from Cobb's character. To think that Cobb is 100% accurate about it is absolutely wrong. He wouldn't know dream from reality – not in the limbo that he describes to people – and definitely not if inception were performed on him to believe that limbo truly was the real world.

Mal and Cobb never really left limbo at least, not that layer of it. When Mal jumped off the building, she gave herself the very same "kick" that Ariadne improvised later on in the movie. Mal was right about still being in the dream world. Cobb was still engulfed in limbo and didn't realize it. When Cobb and Mal had killed themselves with the train, they simply moved one layer deeper just like Saito did when he was killed, Fischer did when he was killed, and so on (this happens again at the end of the film when Saito picks up the gun in front of Cobb).

Cobb, deep in limbo, unknowingly uses the projections of his team to keep going deeper and deeper until the idea of inception is performed on his mind, and he truly believes he was able to find a way back home. Saito's promise to Cobb was kept - in the form of Saito (a projection from Cobb) making sure that Cobb ended up in limbo, so that he could live his "life" with his kids (who are in the same position as they were all throughout the film).

The team were projections in Cobb's mind the entire time. It's how he was able to go to Miles in Paris and find an architect named Ariadne (a name which comes from a Greek mythology story about a labyrinth) who improvised the "kick" at the end of the movie the same way that Cobb had seen (but not accepted as a dream) Mal do previously when she jumped off the building. It's how Eames happened to know of Yusef, and so on and so forth. Everything Cobb needed to make this inception work happened to work out for him. It's even how Cobb's lawyer knew so quickly that Mal had gone to 3 different shrinks to be declared "sane" and how he happened to have two tickets for Cobb to be able to get out of the country before the police would have arrested him.

The movie ends with Cobb appearing from place to place, going from limbo with Saito, to the plane where Saito magically makes one phone call to free Cobb from his problems, to walking through the airport, to meeting Miles who is with Cobb's children. Cobb spins his totem and it spins just like it was a dream. He fixes his eyes on his children and the totem begins to lose speed – this is because inception has worked – Cobb truly believes he is in the real world. His totem will not spin like it did in the dream, not as long as he has his kids. The title of the film is now shown to us, making complete sense because the title was really Cobb's journey through his own mind: INCEPTION[/spoiler]

And this:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/board/nest/167044617?p=1
[spoiler]All of these theories hinge on things we are told by Cobb, who may in fact be an unreliable narrator trapped in a limbo deeper than anyone could even realize they are in. I don't think that anyone in the world of the movie (or Cobb's mind, potentially) knows how deep the mind actually goes. It's all theoretical and undefined. There is disagreement that a 3rd level dream is even possible without everything breaking down (according to Yusef who may only be a projection of Cobb's subconscious). Basically, the "rules" of the dream world are so loosely defined that the door is left wide open to interpretation of the film.

Anyways, the theory about the Totem system even WORKING is all according to Cobb, who says that Mal came up with the idea. Cobb says he uses hers after she died, but we NEVER EVER EVER see COBB's original Totem. This could be a major hint that he has lost all concept of reality.

Maybe once you have been at the deep level that Mal and Cobb were, you will very likely feel that you have returned to reality once you "die", and henceforth believe that your Totem will behave normally (thus constructing its behavior like any other part of a dream). Mal, however, was able to realize that they were still in a false reality, unlike Cobb who had already lost his mind. Eventually Mal kills herself, but Cobb is too scared to jump also. So he carries on using her totem and puts all of his FAITH in the totem's ability to prove his reality. He is actually manifesting its "realistic" behavior, and thus falsely reinforcing his notion that he in in reality. The Totem is his ultimate form of Inception because he continually reinforces himself using it, whereas the totem itself is just an object that behaves the way he believes it will.

The scene where Saito interrupts Cobb's totem spin is a big hint, but doesn't even matter in the larger scheme of the story. The totem can spin or fall, yet ultimately prove nothing.[/spoiler]

Also, my own two cents.
[spoiler]Notice the very end. Because (as far as I am concerned) whether or not the top falls or not is totally irrelevant, it doesn't prove anything. The audience was fixated on the wrong thing at the end. What's really important to note at the end are the kids. They seem to be outside. The scene is identical to Cobb's memories of his kids. Same size. Same clothes. Same everything. This time they only look towards him because he believes he is home. But no. This is Cobb in his final limbo.[/spoiler]
Hohenheim wrote:A quick aside is that some of the themes reminded me of The Matrix. Don't get me wrong, this was definitely a unique creation from the mind of Christopher Nolan, it's just that I noticed a sort of resonance. In fact, philosophically speaking, one might say that The Matrix asks a question that Inception attempts to answer. May it be said that I found Nolan's answer to be satisfying and enriching.

[spoiler]Ah yes, the Brain in the vat. The whole "subjectivity of reality". How do we know that our current reality is really true reality? What if we're just a brain in the vat?[/spoiler]

SO YES. FANTASTIC MOVIE. Interpretable on so many levels. GOOD GOD this movie was just top-notch. Nolan did not fail to deliver.
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Postby LadyRushia » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:57 am

Fascinating theories.

[SPOILER]And here I was being an optimist because they went up through the layers. I'll have to see the film multiple times to really analyze what's going on.[/SPOILER]
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Postby ich1990 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:25 am

In response to MSP's theories:
[spoiler]Hm, I am not sold on that theory yet --I have to watch the movie again first-- but I admit that it is very intriguing. It would explain a lot of the hints and apparent contradictions. . . Which is sad, because I was this close to having convinced myself that he was in the "real world" at the end. Of course, all of my logic was built from the idea that the totems where reliable. I imagined that they were subconscious security devices, like Fischer had, only instead of SWAT teams their brains projected into the dream-world devices that could tell them reality from fiction. Now that you mention the very first scenes, though, it casts doubt on their reliability. To be honest, I had forgotten exactly what had happened at the start until you reminded me.

For the children being the real clue at the end, the only thing I can say that would lead me to believe otherwise is that there are two sets of actors for the kids. One for the young kids (supposedly, those in the dream world) and one for the older kids (the ones he sees at the end). If they are the same in both, due to both being in various levels of Limbo, then why did Nolan use two sets of actors? Granted their clothes were the same and they were in the same house, in the same exact location, but that could simply be an artistic choice, or a necessary improbability that Nolan employed to keep us guessing.

I need to watch this movie again.[/spoiler]
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Postby ADXC » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:44 pm

If there ever was a movie about dreams that just blew me away, Inception was it!

Honestly, for me, it may just be the movie of 2010.

Of course my head hurt a little after seeing it, but it was a good pain that filled my whole mind.


I need to watch it a couple more times for me to grasp everything that's actually going down, but from just seeing it for the first time has sparked new thoughts and ideas in my mind. :)


Honestly, where was this film hiding? XD
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Postby Radical Dreamer » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:37 pm

ich1990 (post: 1410095) wrote:This movie was so freaking awesome on every level: viscerally, emotionally, intellectually... it just worked. My mouth dropped open because of the mind blowing warped realities even as I was hoping a favorite character would survive his zero-g fight and at the same time my mind was in overdrive trying work out the logic puzzles and alternative scenarios. This continued right up to the very moment it ended. Literally. At times I could only shake my head with amazement.


I agree one-hundred-and-freaking-every-number-ever-percent with this. XD I LOVED this movie. The acting, the story, the direction, the imagery, asdf everything was SO awesome. Also yes,

[spoiler]the zero gravity scenes were SO FREAKING COOL. Joseph Gordon-Levitt was awesome in this movie. XD[/spoiler]

Also, did anyone else pick up on any Paprika-esque references? Because I did and they had me entirely amused. XD I dunno if they were intentional or not, but there was definitely some similar imagery! XD

Anyways, I will have to take time to read through all of the interpretations in this thread later, when I have more time. I can't wait to see what some people are saying about the ending! Christopher Nolan strikes again. XD
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Postby LadyRushia » Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:38 am

Also, did anyone else pick up on any Paprika-esque references? Because I did and they had me entirely amused. XD I dunno if they were intentional or not, but there was definitely some similar imagery! XD

The only thing I really caught was how Mal looked like Paprika a bit. I haven't seen Paprika in a long time, but if this movie was somewhat inspired by it, that would be incredibly awesome and I would have to watch both films again to see what they did there.
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Postby Etoh*the*Greato » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:19 am

I don't really have much I can say about the movie except to say that this was about as close to a perfect film as I think I've ever seen... It's amazing.

[spoiler]And I really liked the fact that the ending was left intentionally ambiguous.[/spoiler]
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Postby ADXC » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:44 pm

@ Etoh

[SPOILER] I guess it was a little ambiguous, but I thought that it was established that Cobb had landed in his own Limbo. I mean the little revolving top did wobble a little bit, but it didn't fall over. Well, I guess it did cut off a little too early for us to see if it did or didn't fall. But I kinda think he did just land in limbo. I dunno, it's a huge toss-up. Any other CAAers have an idea about this? [/SPOILER]
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Postby Etoh*the*Greato » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:53 pm

[spoiler]Nope, no clear answer. For every point that was in favor of one direction, there were other equally valid points in the other. The entire point was that it wasn't supposed to be clear.[/spoiler]
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Postby ADXC » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:15 pm

Ah ok, I guess that's the genius in it, huh?

[SPOILER] Because the movie is based on unique ideas and theories, so they don't want you to be left with one straightforward outcome, but leave it ambiguous for the viewer to decide for themselves. Interesting. [/SPOILER]
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Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:58 pm

ich1990 (post: 1410179) wrote:In response to MSP's theories:
[spoiler]Hm, I am not sold on that theory yet --I have to watch the movie again first-- but I admit that it is very intriguing. It would explain a lot of the hints and apparent contradictions. . . Which is sad, because I was this close to having convinced myself that he was in the "real world" at the end. Of course, all of my logic was built from the idea that the totems where reliable. I imagined that they were subconscious security devices, like Fischer had, only instead of SWAT teams their brains projected into the dream-world devices that could tell them reality from fiction. Now that you mention the very first scenes, though, it casts doubt on their reliability. To be honest, I had forgotten exactly what had happened at the start until you reminded me.

For the children being the real clue at the end, the only thing I can say that would lead me to believe otherwise is that there are two sets of actors for the kids. One for the young kids (supposedly, those in the dream world) and one for the older kids (the ones he sees at the end). If they are the same in both, due to both being in various levels of Limbo, then why did Nolan use two sets of actors? Granted their clothes were the same and they were in the same house, in the same exact location, but that could simply be an artistic choice, or a necessary improbability that Nolan employed to keep us guessing.

I need to watch this movie again.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]I wasn't aware they were separate actors. I suppose that was to make things more questionable.

But yeah. I hold the belief that the outcome of the totems working is doesn't matter. Again, I think it's just his projection of what he wants reality to be as.[/spoiler]
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Postby Etoh*the*Greato » Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:12 am

ADXC (post: 1410622) wrote:Ah ok, I guess that's the genius in it, huh?

[SPOILER] Because the movie is based on unique ideas and theories, so they don't want you to be left with one straightforward outcome, but leave it ambiguous for the viewer to decide for themselves. Interesting. [/SPOILER]


For all the originality, I appreciate the stereotype that in any story involving dreams the ending should be left with some sense of ambiguity and uncertainty. After all, "When you're in the dream it seems perfectly real."
"I do not feel obliged to believe that that same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei
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Postby ADXC » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:34 pm

Of course, yeah that does make sense.

Ugh I have so many dreams where it is so ambiguous and there is no logical connection between each part. Sometimes that parts of the dreams will be happy, sad, or something completely mundane or then something completely off the wall. Usually the endings of the dreams don't make any sense to me.

I kinda wonder where these dreams do come from, it's an interesting occurrence that boggles my mind.
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Postby Nate » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:37 pm

I said this in the Airbender thread, but it bears repeating here as well.

I'm going to go see Inception for one reason and one reason alone. Because Christopher Nolan hates 3D too, and refuses to make movies in 3D, and I need to support him for this.
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