H1N1 Vaccine

[Roy Mustang]

Actually, it's still good to use those precautions during this time of the season, even if there wasn't the H1N1. It's not the only flu or only sickness to get out there. So, just because you get a vaccine doesn't mean you can stop being careful. ^_^

It just good to have precautions all the time. I don't mean go wash your hands every few minutes. But people should wash their hands, before eating or putting food in your mouth, when you come in from work or some place that your handling stuff and wash your hands after you use the bathroom.

One of the major reasons, why germs like this get pass is because people don't use good hygiene.

Its one of the reasons why I don't get sick much and I'm one of those that has a weak immune system.

Going back to the stuff about doctors not taking the shot, one of my teachers mentioned that her doctor is discouraging people from getting it and isn't getting it himself.

You need to look at who this doctor sees. If its older people and the doctor is pass the 30+ mark age. I wouldn't be shock that that group needs it if the were born before the swine flu of the 70's.

Like I said before. My doctor being an Internal Medicine and Infectious Disease doctor, didn't have the shot. Because of the studies that show that his age group and were people born before the swine flu came around in the 70's don't really need it.

But he has two kids that range in the pre teens and he had them to get the vaccine.



[font="Book Antiqua"][color="Red"]Col. Roy Mustang[/color] [/font]

[Anystazya]

I'm going to be getting it on Nov. 2, unless for some reason there isn't enough in the clinic. Momma's orders Hearing about the 13 year old hockey player in Ontario who died so quickly from H1N1 recently, and the 10-year-old-or-something girl, who didn't appear to be having any flu-like symptoms, also dying suddenly because of the H1N1 virus...My mom would rather I get a little sick from a side affect, if there were any at all, than to have me suddenly die from the virus Plus, I'm not sure of the state my immune system is in, after getting sick continuously last school year...I know that cases like the 13 year old boy and the young girl are rare, and very likely something like that wouldn't happen to me, but there's still the chance...I guess.

[Tsukuyomi]

Hmmm, if you were to get it or someone you know, what would be some good tips to treat the symptoms of HINI ^^?

[CrimsonRyu17]

Due to my history of respiratory mess (pneumonia twice, bronchitis, flu, who knows what) and scarred lungs, I got H1N1 and the normal flu vaccine 'bout a week and a half ago. No problem at all. I felt a little more tired than usual first two days and that's it.

So I suggest going for it if possible. Especially if people in your area are catching it and possibly spreading it.

[Warrior4Christ]

The government here have enough vaccines for every man, woman and child, which I think is a bit of a waste...

I don't think I'll get it. I'm not in a high-risk category. The chance of it affecting me, or affecting me more than a standard flu, are slim.
(And I don't like injections...)

[shooraijin]

I can't believe I've missed this thread. So here's an MD opinion.

For those of you in the States, the CDC defines the following high-risk categories on their fact sheet at http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/vaccine_keyfacts.htm :

- pregnant women. This is true. All of the ICU cases I've seen were pregnant, and they were really in bad shape. At least one or two died, and they were previously healthy.

- if you live in a house or care for someone younger than 6 mo. They can't be vaccinated, so they shouldn't be exposed.

- if YOU are 6 months to 24 years. H1N1 seems to be rougher in that age range.

- if YOU are over 65 years.

- if YOU are 25 years to 64 years, and have certain high-risk conditions such as asthma, cancer, diabetes or kidney failure.

- if YOU are a health care worker.

This is my perspective on H1N1: it's generally a much less severe illness than the regular flu, and burns out faster. The vast majority of people will get over it even more easily than seasonal influenza, and in shorter time -- which is why I was very unhappy with the CDC throwing Tamiflu around, because all that did was make the virus resistant and most people will do just fine without it. However, it spreads a lot more easily (I am seeing quite a bit of it now in my regular clinic), and for a few particularly high risk people can be very dangerous.

As far as the vaccine goes, I was an early sceptic because it was coming down the pike way too fast without finishing trials. Most people here are too young to remember the Fort Dix debacle during the 1970s, where there were more complications from the vaccine than actual morbidity/mortality from the disease itself. However, that vaccine was produced in a different fashion than the current one which is made identically to seasonal flu, and the clinical trials have completed showing no additional side effects over and above the seasonal flu vaccine.

The long and short of it is, there is no reason why, when the supply increases, you should not get vaccinated unless you have a documented reaction to the seasonal influenza vaccine. I put my deltoid where my mouth is; I received my H1N1 vaccine yesterday the first day our clinic received them. No problem so far, but I get the seasonal flu vaccine every year. No sense giving either of them to my patients.

Hope that gives you some perspective.

Edit: I should add that my opinions are based on the injectable H1N1. I'm not a great fan of the intranasal flu vaccine in general, although we are offering it to children.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

I don't have cancer, but Cancer and I have a history together, and I do have a slightly compromised immune system because of it. I'm waiting for word from my employer, but they are providing free H1n1 (or as I call it, Hiney) Vaccines to certain employees soon. When they are, I plan on getting it. When I get the seasonal flu, I usually catch it harder than those around me, so I really feel like this will be good. I've already had the seasonal batch. I can't really afford any more days off this year.

[Technomancer]

I'm going to be getting it on Nov. 2, unless for some reason there isn't enough in the clinic. Momma's orders Hearing about the 13 year old hockey player in Ontario who died so quickly from H1N1 recently, and the 10-year-old-or-something girl, who didn't appear to be having any flu-like symptoms, also dying suddenly because of the H1N1 virus

These, as well as how fast my city's pediatric ICU beds have filled up with H1N1 cases, ought to be given some attention. Once it's available to the general public (sometime next week), I definitely intend to get the shot.

[Barracuda777]

i have never got a flu shot in my entire life and i have never gotten the flu. take that science

[Peanut]

...yeah I need to get this shot whenever I can...hooray asthma and being hospitalized as a child...

Actually, I would probably be fine since the past two years I haven't gotten the seasonal flu shot and been just fine...but this year, with the schedule I have, and the prospect of studying in Jerusalem next semester I'd rather not risk hospitalization...

[Tsukuyomi]

I've never been hospitalized before :-? The only time I had a bad-ish fever was back when I was 7, but that wasn't enough to be hospitalized :-? I don't think I have any high risk conditions o_o;;

I've never had the flu shot before either, but I'm sure that doesn't mean anything o_o?

[Etoh*the*Greato]

i have never got a flu shot in my entire life and i have never gotten the flu. take that science

That... really says nothing about science so much as it says something about your immune system or your environment. :p

[Davidizer13]

My position is that, until everyone in the high-risk groups (young children, their parents, caregivers/hospital workers, the elderly, people with pre-existing conditions) who want the shot get it, healthy people like me shouldn't consider getting the vaccine. I'm not worried about catching the flu, as things currently stand, though I have heard that there have been a few cases reported at my college. Lucky for me (in some respects), I live way off campus, so I have a lot less risk of exposure from that source.

[Tsukuyomi]

I remember catching something last fall (A friend came over with her sick kids. They were kinda better, but still couaghing and still in recovery stages o.O).

I'm not sure what it was but I had the stomach related problems O.O It lasted about three days :-? The first two days were me being in the bathroom ever 5-10 minutes or so >_> The next day, I was still running to the bathroom, but not too often, but I wasn't even able to sit up for a couple of minutes without needing to lay down >_> The third day, things were better, but I still felt a little weird, but I was glad to not having to run to the bathroom every so minutes and being to sit up without any pain 8D

[goldenspines]

I'm not a great fan of the intranasal flu vaccine in general, although we are offering it to children.

That's because you love to hear the screams of children when they are stuck with the needles. D:

*is kidding, sort of* XD;

Thanks for all the clarifiying info you posted, Shooby. ^_^

[Whitefang]

Sounds a little like "Stomach Flu" (Gastroenteritis), Tsukuyomi. Yes, I had to look that up, but I did know that it is not related to influenza.

[shooraijin]

That's because you love to hear the screams of children when they are stuck with the needles. D:

*is kidding, sort of* XD]

I do enjoy very much listening to the screams of children getting shots. IT IS THE SCREAM OF HEALTH. Also they make funny noises and I giggle.

Seriously, though, I'm not a big fan of introducing "just barely alive" virus into the very cells it is supposed to infect were it more than "just barely alive." It's easier to kill a virus, and inject it into tissue it does not normally replicate in even if it were alive to prime an immune reaction, than just try to kill it a little but still put it in an environment where it would cause a clinically relevant infection. Seems more fraught with peril to me. Notice, for example, we hardly ever give oral polio vaccine anymore. But that's a whole other story.

Sounds a little like "Stomach Flu" (Gastroenteritis), Tsukuyomi. Yes, I had to look that up, but I did know that it is not related to influenza.

Ironically H1N1 can cause gastrointestinal symptoms. However, most "stomach flu" is usually caused by rotavirus or various enteroviruses. Less commonly more exotic agents like Norwalk can also do it.

[Azier the Swordsman]

I have been taking 2000mg of Vitamin C (one 500mg after breakfast, lunch, dinner, and before bed) for the last year or so and have barely gotten sick at all, even though at times I've been constantly surrounded by sick co-workers. I should mention, just last month EVERYONE in my department except for me, another guy who takes 1000mg of Vitamin C a day, and a woman who drinks a lot of orange juice, got the full blown flu.

Combined with the fact that the whole things started when my boss got a flu shot and it actually gave her the flu before passing it around to everyone else... I would say a flu shot is highly unnecessary.

Just take at least one 500mg capsule or chewable Vitamin C a day with some antioxidant drinks and you will be fine.

Note: Do NOT attempt take something like 2000mg all at once as large amounts of Vitamin C at the same time can be potentially toxic and fairly pointless since you aren't spreading the effect out anyways.

I think I should also mention that BEFORE I started taking Vitamin C regularly I got full blown sick at least ten or more times a year, whereas this year I only got sick once when I slacked off.

[Tsukuyomi]

Any Vitamin C pills out there that go down easily ^^? I'm a wimp and have a hard time swallowing pills >_> I can handle it if it's the same size or smaller then Advil 8D

[Azier the Swordsman]

Any Vitamin C pills out there that go down easily ^^? I'm a wimp and have a hard time swallowing pills >_> I can handle it if it's the same size or smaller then Advil 8D

I'm like that too, actually, and you're in luck. They have chewable. They're pretty good tasting at that.

[Tsukuyomi]

I'm like that too, actually, and you're in luck. They have chewable. They're pretty good tasting at that.

Oh yay, that's even better 8D What are they called ^^? I'd do research now, but I have to go 8(

I really hate the ones that has like. horse pills >_>;

[shooraijin]

Combined with the fact that the whole things started when my boss got a flu shot and it actually gave her the flu before passing it around to everyone else... I would say a flu shot is highly unnecessary.

I'm going to focus specifically on this part of your statement: you don't get the flu shot from the flu, period. Some people may have a more heated immune reaction than others, and that can cause flu-like symptoms, but you can't get the flu from a killed vaccine. The CDC also mentions other likely explanations at http://www.cdc.gov/Flu/about/qa/flushot.htm . No one has ever proven that demonstrable, detectable viral reproduction occurs after a flu shot, ever, and it's certainly not for lack of trying.

The live intranasal vaccine is another story, because that virus is indeed living. Fortunately, even considering that, it is still relatively uncommon because it is greatly disabled.

[familygibbs]

I noticed that the original author of this thread is from Canada. The Canadian H1N1 shot has a few different things in it than the American, including stuff that is apparently linked with the Gulf Syndrome and MS (I think I read this in a Maclean's magazine). Anyway, if you are a reasonably healthy person, there is no real reason to get the shot.
H1N1 is a kind of influenza that actually stimulates the body to overreact the immune system in certain areas, especially the lungs. This is why it is less of a problem for the elderly who have weaker immune systems than it is for people in their twenties and thirties. The people in Canada who are most often hospitalized with it are females around the age of 32. In B.C (where I'm from), 4 or 5 people have died of it who had no other known health conditions. Sure this is scary, but you get similar numbers with the common flu too, it just tends to hit the elderly more.
The best way to protect yourself without getting the shot is to take vitamin D, vitamin C, and keep your diet low in sugar. Vitamin D, especially, helps keep the immune system balanced and helps prevent it from going into overdrive with something like H1N1. Good old cod liver oil. Sometimes Granny knows best.

[shooraijin]

I'm taking issue with two particular things in your post, familygibbs:

- Before you issue medical advice (this goes for some other people in this thread also), you either need a reputable source, or a degree entitling you to make such. A statement like "if you are a reasonably healthy person, there is no real reason to get the shot." that is directly contradictory to established authorities had better have some weight behind it. I don't mind people issuing their own statements on what they're personally going to do; it's your health, and it's your body. But if you're going to make recommendations to others, that exposes this site to potential liability even if only indirectly, and you'd better know what you're doing. Unless I miss my mark, you're not credentialed to do so. Don't.

For what it's worth, here is the Public Health Agency of Canada's official statement on risk groups for H1N1: http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-alerte/h1n1/faq_rg_h1n1-eng.php#vac

The reason why your statement is incorrect, btw, is that overall good health is not specifically an indicator. While people in poor health are necessarily at higher risk, perfectly healthy people in certain age ranges also are at higher risk. H1N1 in older populations also seems to be less severe because of a certain background rate of prior exposure, although you are correct in that immune system overreaction is also a big part of the pathophysiology.

- "The Canadian H1N1 shot has a few different things in it than the American, including stuff that is apparently linked with the Gulf Syndrome and MS (I think I read this in a Maclean's magazine)." This is talking about adjuvants, and moves this thread way into the topic of vaccination in general. That's a hot button topic, and if this thread moves that direction, it will be closed.

Medical topics are tough slogging and a lot of misinformation circulates as fact. Either put a professional license on the line behind your opinions, as I do, or give a specific and reputable citation.

[familygibbs]

I apologize shooraijin. I should have phrased my words as an opinion instead of saying them so matter of factly, especially the part about not needing the shot if you are otherwise healthy. As I said later in the post, there have been people who have died who were otherwise healthy and one needs to weigh the potential side effects of the vaccine against the likeliness of first getting the virus and then having serious complications. The decision to get the shot or not is up to the individual person.
The advice I posted about Vitamin D, Vitamin C, and a low sugar diet is from a local naturopath, but does not hold much weight compared to a citation from a scholarly source. Most of what I wrote comes from reading the news and talking with people connected to the medical profession (as for me, I have a B.Sc in Chemistry, but have little medical background, so you are correct in saying I have no credentials).