Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Shao Feng-Li]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-star-wars/49936?type=mov

All bow before the awesome-ness.

I nearly had a heart attack.

[Roy Mustang]

Too bad that its only for the PC only.

[font="Book Antiqua"][color="Red"]Col. Roy Mustang[/color][/font]

[Shao Feng-Li]

Works for me

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Most MMOs are though.

[Jingo Jaden]

I doubt they will change the combat system around too much, and that is what was the main problem with the first two games.

I have Massive doubts it will be much like the awesome KOTOR campagins. It is easy to make great trailers that market a product in a way that really does not represent the game. If they used the fighting engine that was in the awesomeness known as Jedi Academy, then I would have seen it as much more promising.

I will however say that LucasArts did not flop on their last MMORPG, so anything can happen I guess.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

The deal is that each class is getting their own specific set of quests and plot to pursue, and I think there will be others as well, so there will be the usual bioware stuff in there. I think they will have to tinker the combat at least a little bit as I don't think the old KOTOR formula works in a multiplayer environment too well. My only real complaint is the scale of the weapons. Specifically the lightsabers. They look like children's flashlights in the hands of those guys.

[blkmage]

I doubt they will change the combat system around too much, and that is what was the main problem with the first two games.

I have Massive doubts it will be much like the awesome KOTOR campagins. It is easy to make great trailers that market a product in a way that really does not represent the game. If they used the fighting engine that was in the awesomeness known as Jedi Academy, then I would have seen it as much more promising.

I will however say that LucasArts did not flop on their last MMORPG, so anything can happen I guess.

The story is about the only place that I'm pretty sure that they'll get down right. This is Bioware we're talking about and some would argue that their writing and world-building is about the only thing they can do right. I'm more worried about how they handle the launch and the technical issues, as their recent games have been pretty buggy. The fact that this is their first MMO is also pretty troubling, considering even a developer like Blizzard, who has experience with Battle.net, managed to get swamped.

[Jingo Jaden]

The story is about the only place that I'm pretty sure that they'll get down right. This is Bioware we're talking about and some would argue that their writing and world-building is about the only thing they can do right. I'm more worried about how they handle the launch and the technical issues, as their recent games have been pretty buggy. The fact that this is their first MMO is also pretty troubling, considering even a developer like Blizzard, who has experience with Battle.net, managed to get swamped.

Well, not their FIRST MMORPG.



As for your former statements, I agree, they managed to make an epic story and a great character development featuring cruel humor, the best moral choices I have seen in a videogame for some time as well as likeable characters in all shapes and sizes...... The main problem is making thousands of players feel 'spesial'. I am guessing they will make some myth of a jedi that will rise among the ranks of the academy and a student that will challenge Darth Revan and let all the players collect a ton of clues and go into a neverending cycle by doing that.

I love the idea of the return of DR after the second game. It creates sort of a alliance id which players can choose from. Problem is, the battle system in KOTOR is terrible and it makes it all the more worse when a far superior system like Jedi Academy could be taken in as second option. *Yeah, I get the jumping would change the game/world design thing, but those are issues that if worked on early could be completed as it is not terribly demanding.*

Then again, I have not played this yet. So I cannot cast two cents on it yet. All I can say is that I'd rather like KOTOR to stick to single player campaigns. The 3d does not have to be great, the combat system does not need to undergo wast improvements, just keep on pumping out great stories and I would be more than satisfied.

Then again, MMORPGS are where all the money is at.

[blkmage]

Star Wars Galaxies was developed by Sony Online Entertainment, not Bioware. There's a huge difference. SOE developed stuff like EverQuest, PlanetSide, and Vanguard. It's not a great track record, but as you can see, they mainly do MMOs. Bioware did stuff like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and Mass Effect. Bioware is highly regarded for their fantastic single-player RPGs. So, this will be Bioware's first MMO. I think you've confused the publisher, LucasArts, with the developer.

The reason KotOR's combat was a bit unwieldy was because it's based on a turn-based D&D style system, which, up until Mass Effect, was Bioware's system of choice for RPGs. It works alright for single-player RPGs or small groups like in NWN, but probably wouldn't be feasible for an MMO.

Jedi Academy's combat can't really be called a system, nor is it appropriate for an MMORPG. JA isn't an RPG, it's an FPS. The entire gameplay philosophy is different. Besides that, there's the fact that it's based on the Quake 3 engine and was developed by Raven Software.

[Amzi Live]

Awesome! I had seen this ,but not as close to the video quality as the one you linked. XP
I'd definitely like to play this one. Once it comes out I'd like to give it a try.

[Robin Firedrake]

Star wars. MMO. Seriously. You'd think people would have gotten over star wars by now. Myself, I never got into it. At all.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Starwars. MMO. has already been done once to questionable results, but then any project SOE commands or takes over often tends to tank. Luckily, this is not SOE backed. As for Star Wars, it's appeal is for it's fans to know. It's a fun sci-fi romp with lots of cool stuff going on constantly. If you don't like it, there's no need to wonder over it. Nothin' to see here folks.

[blkmage]

Not only that, but the time period in which KotOR is set is pretty much the last piece of Star Wars that can possibly have anything good come from it. Star Wars after New Jedi Order got run into the ground by that terrible Dark Nest Trilogy and the Legacy of the Force series that the expanded universe authors have come up with. George Lucas himself ran the prequel stuff into the ground and that time period remains fertile ground for whatever other terrible ideas he has. Just about the only competent writers of anything having to do with Star Wars has been Bioware.

[Roy Mustang]

Most MMOs are though.

True, but Knights of the Old Republic came out for the Xbox as well. I feel they should have put this one out for Xbox360 and just not limit to PC users.


[font="Book Antiqua"][color="Red"]Roy Mustang[/color][/font]

[Etoh*the*Greato]

If it comes to a console, the odds are actually better it'll come out for a PS3. For what-ever reason most cross platform developments for MMOs are actually heading that direction.

[Jingo Jaden]

Star Wars Galaxies was developed by Sony Online Entertainment, not Bioware. There's a huge difference. SOE developed stuff like EverQuest, PlanetSide, and Vanguard. It's not a great track record, but as you can see, they mainly do MMOs. Bioware did stuff like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and Mass Effect. Bioware is highly regarded for their fantastic single-player RPGs. So, this will be Bioware's first MMO. I think you've confused the publisher, LucasArts, with the developer.

The reason KotOR's combat was a bit unwieldy was because it's based on a turn-based D&D style system, which, up until Mass Effect, was Bioware's system of choice for RPGs. It works alright for single-player RPGs or small groups like in NWN, but probably wouldn't be feasible for an MMO.

Jedi Academy's combat can't really be called a system, nor is it appropriate for an MMORPG. JA isn't an RPG, it's an FPS. The entire gameplay philosophy is different. Besides that, there's the fact that it's based on the Quake 3 engine and was developed by Raven Software.

Well, I was thinking about Lucasarts previous MMORPG's when I mentioned what I did. Star wars galaxies was an early and decent mmorpg which featured a few innovations which leads to my main problem with most MMORPG's. It can get overly complex real easy *Eve online* and it rarely feels like anything other than pack-fights or skirmishes with a light brush stroke of civilization on top of that. Getting millions of players online to feel special in any kind of way is of course a huge challenge.

A combat system like Mass Effect would most certainly be an improvement. I always thought of Mass Effect as a half hybrid between gears of war and KOTOR. Worse story and worse gameplay, but some elements from each which makes it at least competent. It could work online if they focus on movement and structure development. The jetpacks and different character traits that play a real difference. Still, things will much quicker derail into something in the likes of battlefront if that were to happen. Then again, navigating in the KOTOR universe pretty much restricted you to a box-like maze so until the elements are assembled, I cannot really say what they are up to.

All I know is that the combat system in KOTOR would probably be tempting for a group looking for a quick solution in an MMORPG. However, it would hurt the experience as it is the most repetitive thing under the sun. As for the JA quote, I simply mentioned it because it is a relatively fun system which worked years back and still works today. It is fully possible to implement rpg-like functions which will enhance traits in an rpgish manner. Engines and such aside, I'd much rather see a change from the 'point and click' rpg style which I only found to work well in the likes of the Diablo games which focus a lot more on character spells/traits in a way that makes great use of the movement and has that extra layer for those who wish to get the best character possible. I know the KOTOR universe, but a bit more depth in the gameplay which does not have to block the story would be welcome in my mind. It does not mean it has to be as dynamic as the JA fighting or the battlefront theme were you quickly can see tens of units jetpack into nearly unreachable places. It just means that a combat/movement system revamp would be appreciated. Until I see what they really are planning, all I can do is speculate.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

The thing with Lucas Arts, though, is that as a publisher all they do is provide the funding and the facilities to slap it on a disk, along with advertising. Bioware is going to be doing all the work that determines what kind of game we're looking at. Now, as a publisher LA will of course make some demands of the game, but at the end of the day BW is going to be responsible for the design.

You had some pretty good praise for SWG, which will unfortunately put you in a minority. As the majority of players who have passed through the game found it anywhere from unpleasant to downright unplayable, Bioware is going to make sure that any decisions they make are going to likely be based on staying as far away from Galaxies' formula as possible. In all likelihood we're going to see something much more similar to the KOTOR games that it draws it's name from, but hopefully without a D20 combat system.

[Jingo Jaden]

The thing with Lucas Arts, though, is that as a publisher all they do is provide the funding and the facilities to slap it on a disk, along with advertising. Bioware is going to be doing all the work that determines what kind of game we're looking at. Now, as a publisher LA will of course make some demands of the game, but at the end of the day BW is going to be responsible for the design.

You had some pretty good praise for SWG, which will unfortunately put you in a minority. As the majority of players who have passed through the game found it anywhere from unpleasant to downright unplayable, Bioware is going to make sure that any decisions they make are going to likely be based on staying as far away from Galaxies' formula as possible. In all likelihood we're going to see something much more similar to the KOTOR games that it draws it's name from, but hopefully without a D20 combat system.

Galaxies is one of the earliest MMORPG's out there that goes on a shelf level. Now, I found it decent, decent as in 'ok for the time'. It actually had some pretty decent innovations. Goes a bit under the Dune 1 - Dune 2 setting, meaning that it got most elements needed togheter, but failed to properly execute them. So, ok for a very early time for MMORPG's is not really praise, but it is not slaughter either. More ambition than successs sure, but I kind of like to see games try to make a few innovations.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

it had some ok things going for it, and some things that were definitely a step in a new direction, but not necessarily a good direction. I suspect that a lot of the problem is that they tried to innovate a little too much. Most of the MMOs that have struck it big have not been MMOs that tried to do anything new and daring, but instead took the ideas that were already out there and implimented them with a lot more care and polish.

WOW is a good example. I know since it's the big one it's popular to hate, but hear me out. I've been playing one MMO or another since Everquest, so I've got a few games under my belt. WoW was constructed by taking everything from the games that had come before it that worked, retooling a few things that didn't, and polishing everything to a mirror finish. Other than a new perspective on death mechanics (which was still partially borrowed), the game didn't seek to do anything new, but instead it wanted to do what it could do well. Innovation is no good unless it works.

[blkmage]

And that's the difference between SOE and Blizzard. A lot of SOE's projects have included innovative features but have been very poorly executed. These have all failed. On the other hand, none of Blizzard's games are innovative, not Warcraft, not Starcraft, not Diablo. They are all highly polished and done well, but they tend not to include very many new ideas. Blizzard is rolling around in money and highly lauded by gamers.

Innovation is easy. Ideas are easy to come up with. It's the execution and attention to detail that makes a game stand out. Innovative but poorly made games are forgotten or are left as a historical curiosity. Highly polished games, regardless of the amount of innovation it brings, will always be heaped with praise.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

It's like I said, though. WoW did one major thing for MMOs. They found the balance between the unecessarily oppresive death mechanics and the brokenly easy death mechanics of previous games. A good death mechanic is necessary, and they did some nice work coming up with a system that gave just the right amount of punishment.

[blkmage]

That and not having 18 hour boss fights I guess