Watchmen!

[Nate]

I'm going to go against the crowd here, and say that it was the best 2.5 hour adaptation I could have asked for. The sheer amount of stuff they were able to cram into that time is actually fairly impressive.

This.

I wondered if they could really get everything into 2 1/2 hours and they basically did. They cut out some of my favorite parts (Dr. Manhattan and Adrian's conversation at the end), but I'm not complaining.

I really don't understand why everyone said the female actresses were terrible. I really didn't see it? I mean there wasn't any glaring terrible acting at all, as far as I'm concerned.

The worst I can remember is I didn't like the way a couple of characters delivered their lines...that doesn't mean they were acting badly, just the lines were said weird...the biggest offender I can remember is how Daniel says "What do you expect? The Comedian's dead" to Laurie.

Adrian's accent seemed to be...thicker than it was at the end of the movie than the beginning? That's the only other thing that bugged me. It was a bit weird.

The new ending actually kind of makes a bit more sense than the comic's to be honest. I still prefer the comic's ending, but I realize why they did it this way, and have no complaints about it. The newspaper guy and the kid holding each other before the explosion was great, and kind of a little reference only the readers would get, so I thought it was fantastic.

perverting the message Alan Moore was trying to convey in the graphic novel

How? I don't think they really perverted it...if you're talking about how the movie made it kind of feel like "Well, the end justifies the means!" then the comic was like that too...I even remember someone on CAA asking if the comic was sending that message and everyone was like "Well not exactly." The movie's "happier" ending did kind of make it feel more like that but I still don't think it was perverted at all. After all, I think the scene where the Doc explodes Rorschac's guts was done really well too.

Looking forward to the director's cut, although one last thing. I'm not opposed to sex scenes in movies if they're appropriate. And the one in Archie WAS in the comic, and appropriate, so I didn't mind it, but...seriously. Like everyone else here, it was just WAY. TOO. LONG. And setting it to "Hallelujah" was just CHEESY. Ugh.

EDIT: I'm also not fond of the change regarding how Rorschach killed the pedophile either. I far preferred the comic version of that, even though the movie version shows that he snapped a little better.

[Fish and Chips]

Allow me to opening by saying the opening credits were astounding. It was a great idea to use them as a chance to reference the "Supplemental Materials" provided in the novel, and I salute whoever thought of it. The cinematography for that bit was good too, setting the par for the rest of the movie. That and the soundtrack dissonance in the actual first scene (death of the Comedian) of the movie prior to the opening credits.

Saw the film this afternoon, and even at three in the morning I feel mixed about it. While I agree with Cognitive that it's really the best condensed version we could have hoped for, some parts still felt off. Sometimes felt too short, sometimes too long, and movies like this never really escape the rushed feeling common in any adaption of extensive source material. This may be saved by the Director's Cut, which will probably become the definitive version if it can iron things out. The ending in particular.

The Comedian, Rorschach and Nite Owl were the best portrayed acting-wise. The Silk Specter (both of them) and Manhatten were fine, though a personal complaint of mine is that I always read Manhatten with a slightly deeper voice in mind. I still don't entirely like Ozymandias, for a small variety of reasons I'll cheerfully keep to myself for the time being.

[Kkun]

I actually do agree with Nate and Phil that it's about the best they could have done in a 2.5 hour adaptation. I just still have quibbles with it. The way it struck me was as good, not great, but there were PARTS in it that were great.

I also agree with Fish regarding the opening credits. They were probably the best opening credits I've seen in a movie ever.

[ClosetOtaku]

I went into the movie "cold" -- never read the graphic novel, refused to listen to the reviews, etc. Just knew it was based on a DC comic.

I thought the opening credits were brilliant, and wish movies used more of this sort of story telling to cover a lot of ground in a little time.

Agreed Rorschach was the most engaging and interesting character, although others had their moments.

Visually, it was stunning. Plotwise, it was plodding. Probably more gore than necessary. But I knew the movie was in trouble when we were two-thirds of the way through and it was still doing character exposition.

I'm wondering if what one took away from the film varies with what generation you're from -- I found some of the scenes affected me very viscerally, whether humorous or dramatic -- but the person I saw it with, who is from a much different generation and culture, was not nearly as moved.

Overall, not quite sure what to make of it. I could watch the opening credits over and over again as a workshop on 'how to tell a story', but would probably not sit through the entire film unless it was on DVD.

[Peanut]

How? I don't think they really perverted it...if you're talking about how the movie made it kind of feel like "Well, the end justifies the means!" then the comic was like that too...I even remember someone on CAA asking if the comic was sending that message and everyone was like "Well not exactly." The movie's "happier" ending did kind of make it feel more like that but I still don't think it was perverted at all. After all, I think the scene where the Doc explodes Rorschac's guts was done really well too.

Well...[spoiler]what I took away from the ending of the graphic novel was that "the ends justify the means" and all of the characters came to terms with that it except Rorshach. Because of this, you could view Ozymandias as a hero since everyone else was. In the movie, by having Nightowl come back in after Rorshach died and punch Ozymandias out, it seemed to say "Your intentions were good, but you're still a jerk and a villain for doing this." It wasn't much of a perversion but it still was one to me at least...I sort of liked the ending in the graphic novel where everyone goes back and lives a lie because they ultimately agree with what Ozymandias did, not because they felt like they had to. But that was just me...[/spoiler]

Edit: Come to think of it, perversion was probably too strong of a word to use to describe that...eh, what can I say, I was a little tired when I wrote it...

[Nate]

Well...[spoiler]what I took away from the ending of the graphic novel was that "the ends justify the means" and all of the characters came to terms with that it except Rorshach. Because of this, you could view Ozymandias as a hero since everyone else was. In the movie, by having Nightowl come back in after Rorshach died and punch Ozymandias out, it seemed to say "Your intentions were good, but you're still a jerk and a villain for doing this." It wasn't much of a perversion but it still was one to me at least...I sort of liked the ending in the graphic novel where everyone goes back and lives a lie because they ultimately agree with what Ozymandias did, not because they felt like they had to. But that was just me...[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Hmm...actually this seems a bit more...realistic to me in the movie? In the book Nite Owl just kinda goes "Wow, this is horrible! Well okay I'll go along with it." And remember Rorschach and Nite Owl were sort of friends again before the whole deal, the handshake and all, Rorschach apologizing. So it's understandable he'd be upset by Doc blowing him up, and since this was basically necessary to keep the plan quiet (despite the fact that, as Adrian says in the comic, Rorschac's reputation isn't exactly spotless, still...STILL), Nite Owl would obviously be a bit angry about it all.

Also in the book, everybody didn't really agree with what Adrian did. Like I said, Nite Owl basically says that it's horrible, but exposing him would just put the world at war again. This is the "compromise" he tells Rorschach about (which prompts Rorschach to respond "Never compromise, not even in the face of Armageddon). Laurie just says that all the people who died in New York, it was terrible, and being alive was sweet. She didn't really agree. Doc just said he didn't condone it, but he also didn't condemn it, and also that nothing ever ends. So again, they didn't ultimately agree with what Adrian did, they just knew that spilling the beans would cause more harm than good really.[/spoiler]

[WrestlingOtaku]

I'm hoping to go see it sometime this week, on a weekday so I only have to pay $5.00 instead of ten. I haven't read all of the comic, but I did read most of it in Books A Million, so I know the basic plot of the story.

Also I'm kinda surprised no one has found and posted this yet,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w

[heero yuy 95]

Also I'm kinda surprised no one has found and posted this yet,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w

hahaha sooo good

[Etoh*the*Greato]

I was about to ask that.
I think it was entirely appropriate, to be honest. I mean, that's how he is in the novel, the only reason it isn't "shown" more is because the panals and frames aren't as frequent in full body portrayl.
That and it isn't something you really notice unless you're looking for it. Like, I can only remember seeing it twice- at the points where there was no dialouge or movement, or whatever and I had nothing else to concentrate on.

I think it was done in the way it should've been.

Not to mention that in almost every single scene in the movie the cinematographer was shooting from the frame of mind of "how was this panel framed in the book?"

[uc pseudonym]

My thoughts in brief: various complaints but essentially solid.

There were a number of reviewers who rated the film poorly, but in ways that made me wonder if they didn't understand it, or if they condemned the film simply because of the dark tone. However, I reserved judgment until I saw the film - now I feel justified in thinking negative thoughts about those reviewers.

Though I could easily write an essay on this, that's being done everywhere on the internet right now, so I'll just comment about one thing: the ending.

[spoiler]I agree with the change in principle. I always felt that it was a weakness of the graphic novel to think that an attack on a single American city would really cause humanity to join together. Attacking multiple major cities... maybe.

It also doesn't hurt to use Dr. Manhatten's powers for it. I felt it was an off-note to suddenly reveal that there are psychics and teleportation when the world has been almost entirely realistic. Keeping Jon as the only supernatural element creates a more cohesive feel overall.

But on the other hand, I think it alters the way the ending operates. Mankind isn't uniting together so much as living in fear that an ultimate moral arbiter will kill them if they don't comply. That seems more likely to breed violent anarchy than peace and brotherhood to me. Also adds religious overtones that did not exist in the original.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]what I took away from the ending of the graphic novel was that "the ends justify the means" and all of the characters came to terms with that it except Rorshach. Because of this, you could view Ozymandias as a hero since everyone else was. In the movie, by having Nightowl come back in after Rorshach died and punch Ozymandias out, it seemed to say "Your intentions were good, but you're still a jerk and a villain for doing this." It wasn't much of a perversion but it still was one to me at least...I sort of liked the ending in the graphic novel where everyone goes back and lives a lie because they ultimately agree with what Ozymandias did, not because they felt like they had to. But that was just me...[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Though we also have to acknowledge the counter-Adrian trend in the story. The ending, Jon saying nothing ever ends, etc. I seriously doubt Alan Moore intended to argue that the ends justify the means without qualification.

I actually think the series is supposed to raise a much more interesting question. If you believe that killing a person in order to save someone else is justifiable, Moore argues that you have to agree with Adrian when he kills millions in order to save billions.

Also, I think Rorschach does come to terms with the situation (made more clear in the film than the graphic novel). When he yells "Do it!" he's ultimately acknowledging that something that goes against his philosophy of being.[/spoiler]

Also, I see that someone has posted Saturday Morning Watchmen. Those of you who have not seen it, do so.

[Cognitive Gear]

For everyone who loved the title sequence and wish to see it again, you can find it on

http://www.yuco.com/

Go to "New Work" then click on Watchmen. If you'd like to see a stretched, but larger version, you can bear through the ads and go here: http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/article/the-watchmen-opening-credits-are-online

Or, very likely temporarily at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhxjvSL1aPk

[Mr. SmartyPants]

And I've seen that guy with the freaky mask and flamethrower a lot. Is he good or bad?

That's basically the crux of the whole story. It's a very philosophical story that leaves shatters the idea of "black and white".

I thoroughly enjoyed the movie! However, the sex scene was too long and definitely too graphic. Plus the music that was with it made it borderline sacrilegious...

For packing all of Watchmen into 2 hours and 43 minutes, I must say that Zach Snyder gets props. For the most part he successfully retained Moore's themes into the story. I too wished there was more backstory on Rorschach's past, as that was the turning point of the story for me. The meatcleaver scene was also well done, but I would have preferred how it originally happened. Also:

[spoiler]Rorschach's death scene in my opinion was much more moving in the film than it was in the novel.[/spoiler]

So yeah... 8 or 9 out of 10 from me.

Adrian's accent seemed to be...thicker than it was at the end of the movie than the beginning? That's the only other thing that bugged me. It was a bit weird.

Goode suggested Veidt disguised his German accent to highlight the themes of the American Dream and the difference between one's public and private personas

So the way I see it, Veidt's accent was only lost when he was speaking to the general American public, and not when he was with those he had known for a long time. But that is just my interpretation.

[Scarecrow]

For everyone who loved the title sequence and wish to see it again, you can find it on

http://www.yuco.com/

Go to "New Work" then click on Watchmen.

One of the most annoying sites I've ever had to navigate. I couldn't find it on there. I searched New Work and it just kept pulling up whats coming up next. Trying to navigate their titles was a joke... the stupid "more"button kept getting hidden behind other titles etc etc. I hate sites like that.

[Reon]

I enjoyed the majority of the movie.
(Saw the first showing - Friend had free tickets WooH!)

3hs of my life ='( I'll take the last 30 minutes back plz? Kthxbai.
[spoiler]
Didn't like the song they had sex to, although considering the fact I was just looking to the side trying to think about something else, really helped me focus more so on God. =) That part I liked.

I liked the fact it pointed out we are sinful by nature.

Didn't like the fact he was so powerful, people looked up to him and he did as he pleased. Or the fact she left him and slept with her friend soon after.

The action was really awesome and the blood and gore was cool too... Eh... Violence is something I need to understand more and purify my thinking about I think. Comments are open game if you have suggestions / verses.

THE ENDING - Seriously? I'm not a great movie critic but it seemed to me that it tossed a huge butt load of plots in on top of the one that had just started to form, then the powerful guy just walks off and kills the guy who suffered so much from his childhood and understood that the people needed to know... he practically cried... not cool watchmen... not cool.

I'm stopping my rant before it really starts and just putting it under my feet. I love God. lol I'm not to good at reviewing the ending ^_^
[/spoiler]

[Kkun]

Yeah, I couldn't find it either. : ( I wanted to see it again.

[CAAOutkast]

This movie would've been so much better if it didn't have so many F-bombs in it. That and some of the Sexual content.

[Solid Ronin]

If the ending was Rorschach side stepping Doc M's "attack", Chocked him out, Then use Manhattan's body to travel back in time and sucker punches Ozy just before he unleashes the onslaught, establishing Rorschach was He [font="Arial Black"][SIZE="4"][color="Yellow"]WHO WATCHES THE WATCHMEN![/color][/SIZE][/font]...It would have been my favorite movie ever.

[Cognitive Gear]

Currently working youtube link to the opening title sequence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bw3xeCYp90

[Bobtheduck]

Currently working youtube link to the opening title sequence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bw3xeCYp90

"This video not available in your country"

The US? It's an American movie, isn't it?!

[Tarnish]

So I just saw it.

Now, as you know, my expectations were not very high. I actually really, really enjoyed it. I wasn't as bothered by the slow-down speed-up gimmick as I thought I would be, and I left for the bathroom during the sex scene, so I can't really comment on it.

I have a few complaints. The scenes I mentioned earlier, for example. I missed those a lot, but they will apparently be included in the director's cut. So, uh...yay.
Second, the acting was pretty bad. Like, distractingly bad, in some cases. They could have easily replaced Ackerman with a plank of wood covered in heavy makeup for all the difference it would have made. Character development was a little uneven, but hey, it's a long movie anyway.

[Spoiler]I've heard people complain that the ending wasn't ambiguous enough. I disagree. The person I went with was totally confused about who to side with. She also had a TON of questions about the comic, afterwards, which makes me think there may be more problems with the way the plot unfolds than I'm able to see.[/spoiler]

[Etoh*the*Greato]

I have to say that I actually found the acting all around to be pretty good. I was actually watching specifically for it since a lot of super hero movies seem to suffer from poor acting so often. But I totally hear what you're saying on Ackerman.

[Benn]

If the ending was Rorschach side stepping Doc M's "attack", Chocked him out, Then use Manhattan's body to travel back in time and sucker punches Ozy just before he unleashes the onslaught, establishing Rorschach was He [font="Arial Black"][SIZE="4"][color="Yellow"]WHO WATCHES THE WATCHMEN![/color][/SIZE][/font]...It would have been my favorite movie ever.

That would be awesome... I would love the movie if that had happened.

[Reon]

If the ending was Rorschach side stepping Doc M's "attack", Chocked him out, Then use Manhattan's body to travel back in time and sucker punches Ozy just before he unleashes the onslaught, establishing Rorschach was He [font="Arial Black"][SIZE="4"][color="Yellow"]WHO WATCHES THE WATCHMEN![/color][/SIZE][/font]...It would have been my favorite movie ever.

I think that would have made the movie for all of is. The last scene literally made me dislike the movie so so much.

and I left for the bathroom during the sex scene

As did my friend, only he got up before it even started ... Lucky son of a gun. I just zoned out with Hallelujah singing in my head while getting to watch my hand. Hands are amazing things.

I have to say that I actually found the acting all around to be pretty good. I was actually watching specifically for it since a lot of super hero movies seem to suffer from poor acting so often. But I totally hear what you're saying on Ackerman.

I definitely enjoyed the acting, nothing wrong there for me. The things they did though... poor choices - lol & ='(

[Nate]

The last scene literally made me dislike the movie so so much.

The fact that Seymour might publish Rorschach's journal and expose Adrian's villainy made you hate the movie? That's...odd, but whatever you say.

ANYWAY I MUST POST THIS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T SEEN IT BECAUSE IT IS AMAZING.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n3VSw1XBOo&e

[Reon]

The fact that Seymour might publish Rorschach's journal and expose Adrian's villainy made you hate the movie? That's...odd, but whatever you say.

ANYWAY I MUST POST THIS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T SEEN IT BECAUSE IT IS AMAZING.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n3VSw1XBOo&e

Oh no, not that part. I should clarify, its not necessarily the last scene. The scene where Rorschach is killed was the last scene to me (although not literally the last scene). His journal most likely being published was a good thought, but I was disappointed that he was dead as with the other millions. Dr. Manhattan's actions . . . GAH!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n3VSw1XBOo&e

THAT WAS HILARIOUS

[Nate]

Dr. Manhattan's actions . . . GAH!

But Doc didn't even really do anything.
[SPOILER]He even said he didn't condone what Adrian did. He also said he didn't condemn it, but it isn't like he embraced the plan whole-heartedly. He did kill Rorschach, but Rorschach yelled at him to do it. Whether you want to believe Rorschach wanted him to, or not, is up to you, but it is possible Rorschach knew that exposing Adrian would put the world at war again and so he would rather sacrifice himself than compromise his principles.

So really all Doc did was kill one person...yeah, killing one person isn't right, of course, so I'm not saying Doc was innocent, just that his actions weren't nearly as reprehensible as Adrian's. You also have to remember that Doc had abandoned his humanity. The death of millions didn't really personally bother him. And what would've been accomplished by Doc saying anything anyway? It would've just undone what Adrian's plan did, and then those millions of people literally would have died for no reason.

I'm not supporting what Adrian did either, I'm just saying that Doc was operating from a purely logical standpoint, not one based on emotion, and didn't really do anything to contribute to the events.[/SPOILER]

[Reon]

But Doc didn't even really do anything.
[SPOILER]He even said he didn't condone what Adrian did. He also said he didn't condemn it, but it isn't like he embraced the plan whole-heartedly. He did kill Rorschach, but Rorschach yelled at him to do it. Whether you want to believe Rorschach wanted him to, or not, is up to you, but it is possible Rorschach knew that exposing Adrian would put the world at war again and so he would rather sacrifice himself than compromise his principles.

So really all Doc did was kill one person...yeah, killing one person isn't right, of course, so I'm not saying Doc was innocent, just that his actions weren't nearly as reprehensible as Adrian's. You also have to remember that Doc had abandoned his humanity. The death of millions didn't really personally bother him. And what would've been accomplished by Doc saying anything anyway? It would've just undone what Adrian's plan did, and then those millions of people literally would have died for no reason.

I'm not supporting what Adrian did either, I'm just saying that Doc was operating from a purely logical standpoint, not one based on emotion, and didn't really do anything to contribute to the events.[/SPOILER]

Your right about the logical standpoint, I just disagree with his logic. To be honest I'm pry being far to critical and if anything started liking the idea ... (continued in spoiler -[SIZE="1"] if you don't mind knowing a little bit about the movie and haven't seen it the majority of the spoiler is just personal opinion revolving around what happened in the movie[/SIZE])
[SPOILER] that it actually brought up human nature being sinful. It gave me something to relate to from a Biblical standpoint (in a sense). I do like what you said about Rorschach and his principles/possibly sacrificing himself. I came to think that Rorschach thought murder of "innocent" people was never right (but then again he just killed people left and right and was a little bit crazy). The second Rorschach died just really made me feel a deep care for him, the pain he had gone through in his childhood as well as how badly it seemed he wanted to help others in similar situations (based off the reaction he had when the little girl was murdered).

The thing that bothered me about Doc when he had the idea that he might go create something... I'm not sure exactly why it bothered me, but am pretty sure it directly relates to my views on God's creation and the fact I was constantly seeing if the movie was somehow comparing Doc to God. Also didn't like the fact Doc just let her walk out and yes I do understand he had to work on "stopping the human race from killing itself". He seemed to be so controlled by logic and science that he lost site of what truly matters. The movie because of the ended made me think about movies such as Irobot or any other movie that puts morality aside to save the human race. Based of the stories I hear and God talking about his love (and this being the conversation I just talked about to a non-Christian at work who's an insanely cool/emotional guy), I'm trying so desperately to no matter what happens in my life or to the people I love, love the person who's committing the sin. Not love the sin, I hate the sin.

I've seen/heard so many stories where the criminal is showed love (in real life) and breaks down or gives up just because he was shown a little compassion (not that its the case for every scenario). Love your neighbor as yourself (your neighbor being everyone living). I cry out for that in me and I guess to summarize the movie not following with my personal believes as well as me feeling like the plot was getting entangled in ulterior motives made me dislike it.

I don't know much about rating movies and am currently taking my first film class to learn more. I really like what you said Nate and thanks for giving me a lot more information on it. You obviously know what your talking about that and it makes me truly appreciate all the feedback you give. Really glad to be getting to know you.

Sincerely Reon[/SPOILER]

[Sheol777]

I have been following this thread but haven't posted in it much because Nate is saying just about everything I am thinking.

I loved The Watchmen for years. It is a great book, and I am glad to see it flying off the shelves again. Like it or not Alan Moore is going to see a major payoff from this movie in the form of increased book sales.

Now, the film I thought was a great work. I loved it. I think the acting was good. I was a bit hesitant on the actress who played the Silk Spectre II, but she also proved to me that she had the chops for it.

The thing with The Watchmen is everything is grey...there are no absolutes. The question is, whom do you agree with the most?

I can get behind the decisions that were made to leave out parts for the sake of storytelling on film and thought it was handled nicely...yes, even the ending.

Do I have nit picks? Yes.
Did it ruin the film for me? No.

It was brillantly transferred from one medium to another in one of the best ways it could have been done. I wish this would have come out sooner then the other movies that poisioned Moore on Hollywood.


(FYI Rorschach was my fav in the book AND in the movie...I couldn't wait for him to be on screen again.)

[Nate]

Your right about the logical standpoint, I just disagree with his logic. To be honest I'm pry being far to critical and if anything started liking the idea ...

I don't think you're being too critical. Actually I'm enjoying this discussion. I'm actually gonna go a bit off topic here because I think it's fun talking about the different views of this comic and movie.
[SPOILER]First, let me say this. I do not approve of Adrian's plan. It was horrible and wrong, and regardless of the outcome should not have been done.

However, that said. What was done, was done. Even if Adrian had been brought to justice, it wouldn't have revived those people or restored those cities. As has been mentioned, to expose him would simply put the world back at war, and make the deaths of those he killed be for nothing.

It's one of those situations, it's kind of like...if they showed up BEFORE he executed it, they should have done everything to stop him. They shouldn't have let him. It is not the right thing to do, and he needed to be stopped. But they showed up AFTER he did, and there wasn't anything they could do, except turn him in, which would undo everything.

I'm kind of reminded of the parable Jesus told in Luke 16, of the shrewd manager. He was going to get fired, so to plan ahead for afterwards, he told people he'd lie about what they owed to his boss, that way they would take him in and help him after he got fired, and his boss applauded him. It's a weird parable. The boss knew the guy was doing something wrong, but since the manager caught him after the fact, and the guy was going to be fired anyway, there really wasn't anything he could do. All he could do is say "Whoa that was pretty smart."

So what I'm saying is, well you know, God sometimes uses evil to bring about good. And we as humans, we aren't supposed to try to do that. We shouldn't go around doing evil things hoping that good will come of it, but what I'm saying is, when bad stuff happens, God can use that to help. And I think, this is kind of like that. What Adrian did was horrible and awful and terrible, and everyone should have tried to stop him if they could have. But since they couldn't, they kind of just have to accept it and hope good can come of it.[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]I came to think that Rorschach thought murder of "innocent" people was never right (but then again he just killed people left and right and was a little bit crazy). The second Rorschach died just really made me feel a deep care for him, the pain he had gone through in his childhood as well as how badly it seemed he wanted to help others in similar situations (based off the reaction he had when the little girl was murdered).[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]I think what's interesting about that is, Rorschach the whole time had been saying that when the city whispered to save them, he would answer "no" and that the city was full of vermin who should die...and yet, after all that, he WAS trying to save them all, and was angered by the fact that they all died, just as he wanted.

He really is an interesting character. And you're right, he didn't think what Adrian did was really "right," but I do think deep down inside he did know that exposing Adrian would just make everyone fight again, yet he just couldn't compromise what he believed in, which was a stark believe in blacks and whites morally, and that every wrong MUST be punished.[/SPOILER]

I was constantly seeing if the movie was somehow comparing Doc to God.

Well obviously, they were. Statements like "What I actually said was, 'GOD exists and he is an American.'" Stuff like that. Not to mention earlier in the movie, where
[SPOILER]Comedian shoots the pregnant woman, and Doc says "You killed her" and he responds "Yeah, and you watched me. You could've turned the gun into steam, the bullets into Mercury, the bottle into snowflakes, you could've teleported either of us to Australia. But you stood there and WATCHED me. You're out of touch, Doc." This is obviously a commentary on the age-old adage of "If God is all powerful why does He let bad things happen?"[/SPOILER]
They did change one line a bit from the novel. In the novel, Doc says "I don't believe there is a God, Janey, and if there is, I'm not him." In the movie it's "I don't believe there is a God, and if there is, he's nothing like me." I'd be interested to know why the change of that line, since they mean completely different things.

Doc obviously doesn't represent God fully, after all, Doc is not omniscient (he knows everything that will happen in HIS life specifically, but not all events worldwide, and he knows nothing that will happen after Mars), he's not omnipotent (this is mentioned a couple of times, and shown when he isn't able to avoid getting torn apart a second time), and he's certainly not omnipresent.

However, Doc IS almost a parallel of Jesus. Brought about by a miracle, able to perform wonderous deeds, develops a following, is "crucified" in a manner of speaking, disappears from this world, only to return for a brief period of time before leaving again, and (indirectly) causes the salvation of mankind. Again I don't think they're saying "DOC IS EXACTLY LIKE JESUS" but it's definitely not an unintentional likeness.

He seemed to be so controlled by logic and science that he lost site of what truly matters.

[SPOILER]That was kind of the point too, although remember that Laurie helped him remember what was truly important, and to care about life again. He WAS honestly upset about what Adrian had done, which is why he didn't condone it, and why he tried to kill/capture Adrian too.[/SPOILER]

I guess to summarize the movie not following with my personal believes as well as me feeling like the plot was getting entangled in ulterior motives made me dislike it.

Hey, that's fine, y'know? The movie isn't for everyone. I don't think anyone here is going to insult you for not liking it. XD When you say engaged in ulterior motives, do you mean the plot itself? Or do you mean ulterior motives like, this movie is trying to change the way people think? Just trying to see if I understand what you're saying there.

I was a bit hesitant on the actress who played the Silk Spectre II, but she also proved to me that she had the chops for it.

Glad to see SOMEONE agrees with me. XD

I don't understand...see, I go to a lot of forums. And CAA is literally the ONLY site I've seen where anyone said that the woman playing Silk Spectre wasn't any good (out of the people who said they liked it, obviously the people who hated the movie, they're in a different boat). I really don't get it.

I mean, okay, maybe I'm willing to accept that the people on CAA are the ONLY people on the entire internet who realized her acting was bad, but I just don't see it. I wonder if they're just mad about the three minute sex scene so they decided to hate on her just because of that, but said she was a poor actress to make it look justified. XD

Again, not insulting those who said she sucked, it's just that like I said, you guys are literally the only people out of the many forums I go to that said she acted poorly, so it's really weird and I'm not sure why you think that.

[Reon]

Ulterior motives as in I felt like any plot that they were finally revealing was then mixed with multiple other (new) plots, which could have led to them having a hidden message - Not that I don't like movies that make you think, just the the fact for me it seemed that there might have been subconscious or even subliminal messages

I'm gonna have to reevaluate my opinion on what I thought the ulterior motives were in the movie. Really enjoyed every single bit of your feed back =) Thanks.