What To Do With Bad Images In Mangas?

[eternalprincess]

Though honestly, not much really tends to offend me when it comes to manga besides pornographic material . . .

Same here.

[Fish and Chips]

If material is offensive/a stumbling block to me, then I just don't read or watch those things.
I support the hard work artists do, so I don't mark in my books (don't own any manga), but if I come across an offensive word/panel, I just give a quick glance and move on (if it's only an occasional thing). That happened several times with the FMA manga with the "F" word. I'm not sure why, but that word above all other curse words is offensive to me...I cringe when I read/hear it. So I just skip over it--the rest of the manga is just pure awesomeness.

VIZ's volumes tone down the swearing of a direct translation.

[Sheenar]

Thanks, Fish. I'll buy those when I go to buy the series (someday).

[Tsukuyomi]

May I ask what you do about the written content then? If you can't handle the material in that manga then you shouldn't be reading it in the first place o.o Manga and anime are rated for a reason o.o

It is a good idea, but will you be able to really get the whole story that way? I may be reading to much into this (get it XDD), but the pictures go in hand with the story and vi versa o.o I suppose you could huh o.o

Hmm, you say you have your sister look through the manga and "edit' it for you right? Is she ok with that?

I'm the same as the other guys ^__^ If it's something I absolutely can't take. Then I'll just put it down and move one ^ ^ The stuff in manga and anime don't really surprise me to much anyway. It kinda comes with the territory, eh?

[Shao Feng-Li]

Doesn't mean one needs to put up with it

I just cover up the... details... because I want to read Monster XD

[Maledicte]

May I ask what you do about the written content then? If you can't handle the material in that manga then you shouldn't be reading it in the first place o.o Manga and anime are rated for a reason o.o

Are you talking about dialogue or plot?

It's not hard to censor language. American comics do this all the time, in a "you know what they're saying, let's just move on" sort of way. As for plot, for one thing, that's the main reason why people are reading the manga--most people I know read manga for the story, art second. Secondly, one can draw a comic with murder, violence and sex without being graphic and still get the point across.

[Nate]

When I was about 12 or 13, maybe younger, I bought all of the (...edited) Pokémon manga by Toshihiro Ono that had been released by Viz. I was the happiest kid alive until I got to the chapter about Sabrina and the Haunter. One of the characters ended up saying the "D-word" and I was so mad about it. XD

Funnily enough in the collected manga volumes the word was changed to "darn." I guess maybe they got some angry letters. XP

Still though that manga had the crap edited out of it when it got released in America. The Ono manga is still my favorite Pokemon manga but some of his art was just weird and made no sense. The news reporter wearing a thong comes to mind.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Not to be harsh or anything, but it's my feeling that if it offends you...you probably shouldn't keep buying it because it's bound to offend you again.

Yeah, I mean since what's bad about it is what is going on in your head and your heart, you look at the censoring and you still know it's there. Honestly, if you're bound to be offended by something just don't pick it up. Saves you time and effort, money and grief.

[Maledicte]

Still though that manga had the crap edited out of it when it got released in America. The Ono manga is still my favorite Pokemon manga but some of his art was just weird and made no sense. The news reporter wearing a thong comes to mind.

I was surprised that a lot of people actually liked Misty in the wetsuit as opposed to the bathing suit.

[mysngoeshere56]

I really haven't edited anything in my mangas, but I haven't read very many yet. I have come across the occasional unfortunate word, so I have been thinking about doing the sharpie thing.... *thinks* Or maybe I could just grab white-out tape and write my own preferred wording over it.

All of the stuff in mangas that I have that I would really want to edit out are basically swear words, misuses of the Lord's name, and references to the shinto religion. I don't own any pornographic ones.

[GeneD]

Yet I find myself having lived 20 years without uttering a profanity myself.

That's impressive.

I don't own any manga but I've read a few, none yet where I felt that I should edit anything out.

Honestly I've never even thought about the option to edit out objectionable/stumbling block content. Obviously for a DVD I'd skip ahead if there's anything I don't want to see, but I don't think I'd ever block something out of a book/manga due to respect for the author/artist and the fact that I paid good money for it and it would just feel wrong to alter it.

If I ever do censor a book/manga, it would be for someone younger or such who need it. But it won't be something permanent like a marker rather sticking it closed with something you can remove again. This probably defeats the object, but I don't think I’ll ever be able to alter it permanently, that’s like ripping the page out or something. *shudders*

I don't see too much of a point in censoring it for yourself after you've seen it, since every time you look at it, your brain will just fill in what was there before. Well at least that's what I think will happen to me and I don't mean any disrespect to anyone who does censor things for themselves.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

If a manga had mid to extreme nudity, then I wouldn't even bother reading (to easy to stumble). Don't you think that colouring it in/masking it draws your attention to it more, or even that you have to focus so much on doing it?

Like I said before, there are manga that need to be censored but Nausicaa is not one of them.

[Syreth]

Could it be beneficial to the discussion to make a distinction between "objectionable content" and "stumbling blocks"? For example, I find vulgar language objectionable, but I do not find it a stumbling block. I've heard many a profanity in my life - shoot, I've watched The Boondock Saints, which has more f-bombs dropped than I've seen anywhere else (with the possible exception of YouTube comments). Yet I find myself having lived 20 years without uttering a profanity myself. Excessive fanservice, however? It can be a trouble for me if I'm not careful. So I would be more likely to ignore language than fanservice in a particular manga. However, I still find both objectionable.

I don't know if that adds anything, but I thought it noteworthy.

.rai//

I think this is a necessary distinction to make. Very insightful. There quite a few things that I could do without in media that I find objectionable, but do not cause me to sin, so I can deal with them. However, if the content causes me to stumble (which is a blurry line sometimes) I'm better off not even taking it off the shelf. Thank you for that.

[Prince Asbel]

May I ask what you do about the written content then? If you can't handle the material in that manga then you shouldn't be reading it in the first place o.o Manga and anime are rated for a reason o.o

It is a good idea, but will you be able to really get the whole story that way? I may be reading to much into this (get it XDD), but the pictures go in hand with the story and vi versa o.o I suppose you could huh o.o

Hmm, you say you have your sister look through the manga and "edit' it for you right? Is she ok with that?

I'm the same as the other guys ^__^ If it's something I absolutely can't take. Then I'll just put it down and move one ^ ^ The stuff in manga and anime don't really surprise me to much anyway. It kinda comes with the territory, eh?

If by written content you mean swear words, no. Maybe if the 'F' word is used, but it isn't in the ONE manga I have. Swear words are not a stumbling block for me, so I don't ink it out. Plus, the words are so tame and used so often that they aren't used in the bad kind of swearing. The kind people use for the purpose of sounding vulgar.

My sister is completely okay with editing it. She knows about my problem and was happy to do what I asked. Now admittedly, I could read the manga without being troubled too much, but I have been struggling as hard as possible the last five months to avoid looking at nudity period that I'm not going to take risks while I can avoid it altogether.

If a manga had mid to extreme nudity, then I wouldn't even bother reading (to easy to stumble). Don't you think that colouring it in/masking it draws your attention to it more, or even that you have to focus so much on doing it?

Like I said before, there are manga that need to be censored but Nausicaa is not one of them.

This is a valid question. I've looked at the manga about three times since I bought it, and honestly, the paper does remind me why it's there. However, it does not conjure up thoughts about sex or images of totally nude girls. In fact, I feel good when I see it there because I'm reminded of the tremendous progress I've made in dealing with lust. I've reached so far as to actually take these extreme measures so I don't sin. So I don't fill in what's there, I actually feel a victory in Christ. It actually makes me feel good as opposed to feeling "phew!".

I apologize. That's not quite how I meant it to come across. It would have been better for me to say I'm not certain why you would continue to purchase items which have content you find to be a stumbling block. The reason being that some of the money does indeed tell the creator of the media that the content in question is just fine. Simply removing the content from sight won't tell the creator that the content is objectionable.

In this case I don't feel that there is any problem with the censorship. There's a world of difference, I think, between purchasing media that has content you find to be a stumbling block for yourself, and censoring content that is inappropriate for a young individual.

I'm glad you're okay with censorship. The answer to your question is one I'd thought of for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

The way I think about it is this. Obviously I don't support Hayao Miyazaki's inclusion of nudity in his work, and when I bought the manga and the film I never intended to support it. Buying something that may have objectionable content in it is not supporting the use of bad content. Just like when I shop at Walmart and my money is used to continue selling products I would never buy, that is not a statement from me that I support their sales of such products.

So someone needs to be REEEEALLY careful if they see someone else buying something they find questionable. And this goes for those who are selling the products. Some of my church friends would raise their eyebrows at anime, but when they realize how I deal with it, they would probably feel just fine. And I don't think Hayao Miyazaki sees his sales of Nausicaa as support for swearing and occasional nudity. He never intended it to be popular for that, so I don't send him the message that I support the use of it. That is a huge difference between that and something like a swimsuit manga.

If you're buying a manga that does in fact make its money off those things, I don't buy it. In those cases where the manga is clearly designed to make people sin, then that's the one you don't buy. That's a case where you'd be supporting it. Again, you have to be REEEEALLY careful when you see or hear of someone buying something that has objectionable content. Buying something that may have a little objectionable content in it is not supporting the use of bad content.

Now I have to go. My time is running out, and I've got jobs to do. Hey, I appreciate everyone contributing to this thread. It's nice to discuss things like this.

[ich1990]

The way I think about it is this. Obviously I don't support Hayao Miyazaki's inclusion of nudity in his work, and when I bought the manga and the film I never intended to support it. Buying something that may have objectionable content in it is not supporting the use of bad content. Just like when I shop at Walmart and my money is used to continue selling products I would never buy, that is not a statement from me that I support their sales of such products.

I agree. As such, I plan to buy Urasawa's Monster. Even though it has a few scenes that I feel are very objectional, they are far from the focus of the series. I plan to use a letter opener (the kind with a razor blade) and surgically remove those few offensive pages from the books once I have purchased them.

If, on the other hand, the objectional content is the focus, not the unfortunate byproduct of a series, I don't read it.

[NekoChan_C]

Wow, this is an incredibly interesting and thought provoking topic! I am SO glad that it was brought up, as it has made me really think about what I consider harmful or inappropriate... Now, bear in mind that I was away from my faith for a looong time... I have done things, seen things, etc; that I positively cringe at now... but it gives me a unique perspective as someone who HAS experienced a lot of the bad stuff the world has to offer, yet found it lacking to the point of crawling back to Jesus.

I think we should remember Paul's words to the Corinthians: "Everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others... For why should my freedom be judged by another’s conscience?...So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. ***Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God, even as I try to please everybody in every way.*** (1 Corinthians 10:23–11:1, abridged by me)

So while certain things may be objectionable but not be a stumbling block to you, bear in mind that what you are doing may be a stumbling block to others. Also remember that once you've seen something, it is VERY HARD to "un-see" it. Anytime you read, watch, listen to, talk about or even just THINK about something, you are opening up your spirit to it. Just be certain that you know what you are letting into your life.

Now, I'm not saying "Don't do ANYTHING that isn't 100% centered around GOD!!" It would be terribly hard to live in this world without being exposed to any secular influences, nor would it make you any better of a person or Christian. Sometimes our faith and walk with God can grow from being exposed to the trials, then standing against them.

So I applaud anyone who takes steps to self-censor what they are reading, as I applaud those who choose not to read it at all. It's all about keeping our lives pure and free from sin, right?

Just my two cents, anyway.

[beau99]

I do not believe in censorship in any form. If I were offended by something enough (very rarely) I would avoid it to begin with.

[Shao Feng-Li]

I agree. As such, I plan to buy Urasawa's Monster. Even though it has a few scenes that I feel are very objectional, they are far from the focus of the series. I plan to use a letter opener (the kind with a razor blade) and surgically remove those few offensive pages from the books once I have purchased them.

If, on the other hand, the objectional content is the focus, not the unfortunate byproduct of a series, I don't read it.

What about the other side of the page? For example, one page has few girly posters on the wall (because we don't know what the red-light district is...) and the other side of the page is fine.

I don't get how someone could be AGAINST censorship. Seems kinda silly. Honestly, you ought not to be drawing naked women in the first place like that. I don't care to know that an artist can draw body parts. It's a manga, not an anatomy text book.

Sure the first time you read it, you see the nudity. It's not like I ever black out a whole panel. The the few spots. One eventually forgets about it. *shrug* You're not adding or taking from the story at all that way.

Language has never been a problem for me (I'm hardly convinced that swearing is really even evil...) I would black out the f-word I think. I just don't like seeing it.

Just some more of my thoughts because everyone wants to read them

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Shao: Just doing a devil's advocate thing. What would you say about the various works of DaVinci and the other classical artists which often featured nude figures? I know that this is usually not the intent in Manga, but many artists see the human figure as being the greatest work of Art, even so far as pointing to the Creator. Would you censor Michaelangelo's David?

[ShiroiHikari]

Maybe it's because I'm a woman, but I don't see what's so wrong about the human body. O_o If a non-sexual nude drawing turns you on, then the problem is most likely with you, not the drawing. If that means you have to avoid it, then that's what it means, but what I'm saying is that maybe we shouldn't automatically associate boobies with sex.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

If it's a stumbling block it's a stumbling block. Though I really do feel that censoring draws as much attention to it as the drawing itself. I know I see a censor bar over a woman's chest and my brain is still screaming This. It still gets the image in my head and that's what matters.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Shao: Just doing a devil's advocate thing. What would you say about the various works of DaVinci and the other classical artists which often featured nude figures? I know that this is usually not the intent in Manga, but many artists see the human figure as being the greatest work of Art, even so far as pointing to the Creator. Would you censor Michaelangelo's David?

Probably XD

At least, I wouldn't own a replica.

I get that it's nonsexual in of itself. There's nothing perverted or evil about the human body. But we're supposed to be modest. (Why he chose to sculpt the guy naked though is beyond me...) God covered Adam and Eve. Heck, a woman could be wearing a tent and men still lust after her. Anyways...

It's just a very slippery slope...

[Debitt]

...I would really want to edit out are basically swear words, misuses of the Lord's name, and references to the shinto religion. I don't own any pornographic ones.

While I'm not going to sit here and play spot the Shinto in manga, I'll just say that chances are, you're going to have very black manga pages by the time the day is through.

My question is: what is so innately offensive about Shinto (or any other world religion, for that matter) that one can't even let their holy eyes look upon it?

[Shao Feng-Li]

That'd be like walking around Japan with your eyes closed.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Yeah... We may not believe in those religions, but if God is Truth then we have nothing to fear from reading about them, or seeing references to them. There is nothing innately sinful about that to my knowledge.

[Fish and Chips]

If it's a stumbling block it's a stumbling block. Though I really do feel that censoring draws as much attention to it as the drawing itself. I know I see a censor bar over a woman's chest and my brain is still screaming This.

This thread is done. Etoh has already made the best of all possible posts.

[EricTheFred]

That'd be like walking around Japan with your eyes closed.

But think of all the cute girls you would run into!

Sorry. My bad. Couldn't resist....

[Shao Feng-Li]

... I am a girl.

[Prince Asbel]

I agree. As such, I plan to buy Urasawa's Monster. Even though it has a few scenes that I feel are very objectional, they are far from the focus of the series. I plan to use a letter opener (the kind with a razor blade) and surgically remove those few offensive pages from the books once I have purchased them.

If, on the other hand, the objectional content is the focus, not the unfortunate byproduct of a series, I don't read it.

Bingo. You're on the right track.

Shao: Just doing a devil's advocate thing. What would you say about the various works of DaVinci and the other classical artists which often featured nude figures? I know that this is usually not the intent in Manga, but many artists see the human figure as being the greatest work of Art, even so far as pointing to the Creator. Would you censor Michaelangelo's David?

Yeah, I would. See, for me, it doesn't matter if it's not drawn in an alluring manner. I can't help it if it's drawn that way or not. They were wrong for drawing those things. Drawing nudity is no better than being nude yourself. The problems they cause are the same, so there's no excuse for that.

If it's a stumbling block it's a stumbling block. Though I really do feel that censoring draws as much attention to it as the drawing itself. I know I see a censor bar over a woman's chest and my brain is still screaming This. It still gets the image in my head and that's what matters.

Ha ha, very funny. I get it though. I'm sure there are some who would still just fill in the censored area in their mind. But I can't say that for myself, as censorship actually does me spiritual good. Sure, it gets my attention, but instead of lusting, I am reminded to think of how good a thing it is that it's censored and that I'm winning victories in Christ whenever I do that. I guess it depends on how hard you're actually trying to overcome your lust and/or whether you just react differently.

While I'm not going to sit here and play spot the Shinto in manga, I'll just say that chances are, you're going to have very black manga pages by the time the day is through.

My question is: what is so innately offensive about Shinto (or any other world religion, for that matter) that one can't even let their holy eyes look upon it?

Um... I can read books about Shinto like I can read books about Atheism or Hinduism. They don't affect me at all. If you want to talk about what I said in the Nausicaa Fan Rant Thread, let's do it there, not here. I think this is a seperate issue from what we're discussing here.


By the way, an apology to Radical Dreamer for triple-posting. I did that again instead of thinking to put everything in one post. Sorry!

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Mods, if this dips in to theological discussion, tell me and I'll shut up. I'll even edit it to have nothing but a picture of me picking my nose. I'm not entirely sure nudity is bad in and of itself, same with sex. Both were made by God. We are God's creation, and sex is one of His gifts to us. YES, the misuse of those things is awful! I agree whole heartedly, but that's like saying Baseball is bad because some people use illegal enhancements to win. Humans have screwed up everything, but we needn't dismiss something God ordained or created just because it can be abused.