CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Mr. Hat'n'Clogs brought up an interesting topic in the chat, and I thought it would translate well into a topic for everyone to discuss.

Basically, how do you feel about the artwork in an anime that you watch? Will you watch something if it's not interesting to look at or if the character designs bug you? Do you feel that, regardless of the budget or quality of a show, you'd rather just go read a book for a good story? Perhaps that an anime is pointless without treating your eyes or personal tastes to a delicacy or at least something meagerly nice to look at?

I honestly think a person would miss out completely on what could otherwise be an enjoyable story or new experience for them. I don't want to miss the chance to to see loveable characters or a unique plot twist for the first time, so I'm willing and ready to give everything a shot.

I'm ready to sit through what would otherwise be a visually unpleasing experience so long as the plot or characters will act as the pillar of support to hold a show up on its feet. I still appreciate shows that sit on the other end of the spectrum, but when it comes to rating a show or saying how I felt about it, I always look to whether or not there's more to the moving pictures than how much I liked seeing them. Obviously, I don't feel like I'd rather just read a book. I could certainly get a good story from a book, but I could also get a good story from a show that may as well be a hunk of text. Sadly, there is no book of that particular story, so I'll miss out if I avoid it. It's like choosing a particular brand of a chocolate bar to another that tastes different but is also very good.

That's how I personally feel about it.

If you don't see an option you like in the poll because the questions kind of suck, feel free to post your own explanation.

Well, I mean, I already read visual novels, so the visual achievement bar is set pretty low.

Of course! I live for stories, how they're told/portrayed doesn't matter to me.

The Story is the Best. The Graphics does not matter.
Some of the most life changing anime don't have good artwork compared to today's standards of animation.
(Also should add in that I have recently been doing Visual Novels. So as blkmage said: "visual achievement bar is set pretty low.")

blkmage (post: 1508114) wrote:Well, I mean, I already read visual novels, so the visual achievement bar is set pretty low.

This.

VNs tend to be a bit lower in terms of artwork quality. Even if the art is great, expect only a few different character sprites to be repeated over and over and over and over.

Yes and no, depending how you ask the question.

Anime is visual as well as aural, so both factors are essential to its impact on the viewer. Otherwise, honestly, you could read a book and your imagination could do the visual part for you.
The important part for me is that the story and art both need to work together happily. You cannot have one overpowering the other. Take One Piece for example. I know many people who won't watch it because the artwork is too weird, but really, if you ask anyone who watches it, the art style fits the show perfectly. Not for being weird, but for being a fun ride.

Plus, I should also note that all anime artwork doesn't have to be shiny and smooth to be good.

So, to watch something "just for the artwork" is silly, but so is watching something "just for the story".

I think art direction is incredibly important, even though story trumps it. I won't touch a series in which I find the art to be ugly or not to my liking. I did watch Kaiba and wasn't overly happy about the animation but the story and characters were so good that I really enjoyed it. Would I prefer more detailed and better drawn art? Yes. But it wasn't necessary for this title.

What about 100% 3-D Computer Generated Anime?

^See ReBoot, though it may not be considered anime.

I think most any fan will watch a series if the artwork is even considered below average. The story and characters are a very important part of the series. If they can't connect to the viewer, all the artworks of even Michelangelo and Tezuka will not save it.

Artwork is something that can be expended easily in a series, as long as it's not offensive or even abysmal. One piece is an interesting series to bring to the table. Not everyone claims to like it because of it's artwork. For me, I got past that after reading the manga/watching the show for 5-10 minutes. Now after about seeing 200+ episodes it seems normal to me.

I don't think asking for good artwork and story is too much to ask,though.

blkmage (post: 1508114) wrote:Well, I mean, I already read visual novels, so the visual achievement bar is set pretty low.

Visual novels? pah! You should see the old art on some of the webcomics I follow. XD

Good art can catch the eye, but a good story keeps you interested much longer.


EDIT: Wait. you mean MANGA?!?!?

VN's arn't manga, they're more like a videogame version of a pick your path book... sort of.

I'd prefer good art with my story, since if it's a good story with terrible art I'd probably just rather read a novelization. Anime is a visual medium, so there has to be some iota of visual competance for the media to communicate the story as intended. I've seen shows that actually went to panning over still shots for budget constraints that still had a good story, but because of how those budget saving shots were handled, the story wasn't compomised.

MomentOfInertia (post: 1508222) wrote:Visual novels? pah! You should see the old art on some of the webcomics I follow. XD

Good art can catch the eye, but a good story keeps you interested much longer.


EDIT: Wait. you mean MANGA?!?!?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_novel

Sorry, I worded that poorly, I meant to aim it at the OP.

And I know what VNs are.

^ Sorry. THe way you worded it made it sound like you didn't know what a VN was!

I think story trumps art all the time. That's why I HATED Final Fantasy Seven: Advent Children. Sure, the CGI was awesome. But the story? Unless you were someone like me who played the game several times, you probably wouldn't like it very much. And don't even get me started on that other Final Fantasy monstrosity, The Spirits Within. No, you need both visuals and story.

I do not think the visual novel comparison makes any sense, because it is a different medium from anime. While I would expect some level of competent art out of a visual novel, I didn't drop Tsukihime because every CG didn't look like it was done by Rafael, because the actual wording of things of it is much more important to the visual novel than you would see in, say, a manga.

Here's the thing, anime is a visual medium. If the show does not have a reason for being animated, why am I watching it? If the story is the only important part of a anime, why are you watching a show instead of reading a good book or watching a live-action movie or a play? While I don't think character design is vital to a shows success, I do think it's important, and there should certainly be at least solid animation for it to be worth watching. If I want to watch a low budget comedy, I could just go watch something that's on the TV or whatever.

Now, I'm not saying that the production values of a show are the only important part or anything, but I don't see much point in watching an anime if it gains nothing from being watched.

Mr. Hat'n'Clogs (post: 1508272) wrote:If the story is the only important part of a anime, why are you watching a show instead of reading a good book or watching a live-action movie or a play?

Because then you're not seeing that particular story. You're reading or watching something else that may or may not have a better story, and you still miss out on ever gaining the knowledge of what that other show had to offer.

It's like if the Lord of the Rings (or <insert something you love here>) with all of its characters, setting and plot was entirely intact, but only existed in the form of one medium that someone passed up because they took one look at it, thought it didn't look nice, and decided it was pointless to watch. Instead, they went off to read "a good book" instead.

Mr. Hat'n'Clogs (post: 1508272) wrote:but I don't see much point in watching an anime if it gains nothing from being watched.

You gain absolutely every other value that show can rely on besides pretty pictures.

That's how I view things, anyways.

I would not watch an anime if the art was ugly or bad. Anime is also a visual medium, so an anime with crappy art, to me would be like a badly written book. It doesn't matter how good the story is. If it's presented badly, I wouldn't be able to enjoy the story, I'd only notice how bad the art is. Contrawise, I wouldn't like something that has a studpid plot but beautiful art (though that is preferrable to bad art-good story).

Like other people have said, if the art isn't any good, why watch it? That's kind of the point of anime-that it isn't just a good story, but also looks good. If the art was bad, I'd rather read a novelization, so I could enjoy the story without being distracted by bad art.

The obvious answer is because there's a story being told that interests me. Why would I want to watch Clannad instead of reading a book or watching something on TV? Because I want to watch Clannad and Clannad isn't a book or on the TV.

Now then, Clannad is a visual novel, so then you might ask why I'd want to watch Clannad instead of reading the visual novel. And in this case, you've got me. This is why I threw in my visual novel comment: because I really don't care. It's why I read light novels and visual novels and manga. I'll go wherever I can get the story.

I personally view the story as being the most powerful element to an anime. To quote Hiryu, "The story and characters are a very important part of the series. If they can't connect to the viewer, all the artworks of even Michelangelo and Tezuka will not save it."

To present the opposite argument to this thread: If you'd rather watch a show that just looks nice, why not just go look at a painting?

Although not an anime, this suits the thread quite well: If you get turned off by the art, you'll miss out on a nice but highly interpretive story. Now obviously the artwork here isn't completely horrible, but I'd still watch this if it was worse. It's only there to add direction to the narrative and give the viewer a better understanding of what's happening.

Visuals are important for a visual medium. However, even things like stick figures can be used to tell decent stories... (actually, I used stick figures to tell a story one time, on this site where you are supposed to make paintings and let people watch how you did it. I, instead, used it to tell a story and for obvious reasons, stick figures were the only way to go) so it's not so much that pretty visuals are needed to tell a story, more than fitting visuals? Maybe that's not the word either... Basically, I'm saying they're important, but it's complicated...

No matter what medium it is, I think the most important thing is the story. I would totally watch an "anime" made of stick figures and scrolling text with no sound if the story was worthwhile. Obviously, the experience is so much better when the visuals and everything else are good and mesh well together to tell the story, but I'll bear just about anything for a good story. It's a bit like the way I play video games: You might say that the most important component of a video game is its gameplay, but I'll slog my way through the worst gameplay imaginable for a good story.

Admittedly, I've never watched an anime with visuals I could truly call ugly all across the board, so this is just in theory. I'm with those who argue for watching an anime like that simply because you won't get that particular story any other way. It's all well and good to say you'd rather read a novelization, but for some stories such things would be impossible to find (which is why one of my hobbies is writing novelizations, to make good stories available to more people).

I voted (A) because I watched Akagi and liked it.

Wallachia (post: 1508280) wrote:Because then you're not seeing that particular story. You're reading or watching something else that may or may not have a better story, and you still miss out on ever gaining the knowledge of what that other show had to offer.

It's like if the Lord of the Rings (or <insert something you love here>) with all of its characters, setting and plot was entirely intact, but only existed in the form of one medium that someone passed up because they took one look at it, thought it didn't look nice, and decided it was pointless to watch. Instead, they went off to read "a good book" instead.You gain absolutely every other value that show can rely on besides pretty pictures.

That's how I view things, anyways.

Again, see, part of anime's strengths is that it is a visual medium. Because you are seeing pictures, that is something it has as a strength to tell its stories. If it isn't using its visuals as a part of the show, then it is not reaching its maximum potential.

Part of what makes The Lord of the Rings strong is its use of the fact that its a book. Imagine if the Peter Jackson LotR movies were just people walking around and talking a lot]I personally view the story as being the most powerful element to an anime. To quote Hiryu, "The story and characters are a very important part of the series. If they can't connect to the viewer, all the artworks of even Michelangelo and Tezuka will not save it."

To present the opposite argument to this thread: If you'd rather watch a show that just looks nice, why not just go look at a painting?

Although not an anime, this suits the thread quite well: If you get turned off by the art, you'll miss out on a nice but highly interpretive story. Now obviously the artwork here isn't completely horrible, but I'd still watch this if it was worse. It's only there to add direction to the narrative and give the viewer a better understanding of what's happening.[/QUOTE]You seem to be thinking I only watch anime for the production values in it. If this were true, I would probably think Jyu Oh Sei(which I hate) is a better show than Bamboo Blade(which I love). However, I think animation(given that it is an animation) is a very important part of a show. When I saw Kino's Journey, I didn't really get into it because of the production of it. For a show about traveling this mysterious, terrible, wonderful world, the people and settings looked incredibly bland. It looked like it was just taken straight from a book, which, it actually was.

Consider this. Let's say that medium x and anime y have the same level of storytelling. Both have a great cast of characters and an solid plot. However, x takes advantage of its own medium while y has bland production values and gains nothing from the fact that it is an anime. Why should I be watching y when I can be enjoying x?

Let's flip this around. I could read a book with choppy prose but a good story and cast or watch an anime with good production values. One is clearly using its medium well, while the other is not. Again, it's not that I watch anime solely for the animation, but I consider the animation an important part of the fact that it's an anime.

TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1508874) wrote:I voted (A) because I watched Akagi and liked it.

This would imply Akagi does not have awesome art.