Chrstian Morals and stories in anime

Postby **bemanisuperstar** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:40 pm

I have noticed Trigun contains many themes from Genesis and Exodus.

Like Vash and Knives being Cain and Able.

Wolfwood in the Desert symbolizing Moses

There are others but I can't remember them.

I don't get it though Eva is supposed to be so biblical and I see a bunch of Whiny people who bring about the end of the world. I guess it's Revelations on Pain Killers?

Where else have you seen Chrstian and biblical themes in anime? And how have you used it to bring people into the light of Jesus?

Postby **Ashley** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:51 pm

I made myself sit down and write all the biblical/evangelical type stuff in Trigun (I had thought once upon a time it'd make a really cool bible study), including themes on jealousy and drunkenness, among other things. Was really interesting.

However, you do need to be really careful when doing stuff like this. It's far too easy to accidently give someone a bad view of Christianity. Just make sure you cite they are analogies, not allegories. Big difference.

Postby **bemanisuperstar** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:54 pm

Ashley wrote:I made myself sit down and write all the biblical/evangelical type stuff in Trigun (I had thought once upon a time it'd make a really cool bible study), including themes on jealousy and drunkenness, among other things. Was really interesting.

However, you do need to be really careful when doing stuff like this. It's far too easy to accidently give someone a bad view of Christianity. Just make sure you cite they are analogies, not allegories. Big difference.

Aside from being a Former Power Ranger Jonny Yong Bosch is also a chrstian with his own Christian band

I'd love to discuss trigun in my bible study the kids in mine are sooooooooo Pessimistic. (like a real life Seele)

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . · Postby **MillyFan** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 4:16 am

^sigh^

I'll leave it at that.

^sigh^

Postby **HEDGESMFG** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:57 am

Aside from being a Former Power Ranger Jonny Yong Bosch is also a chrstian with his own Christian band

Really? O.o

Dang! That just makes me even more disappointed he wasn't able to make it to Anime Central in 2003...hopefully 2004.

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . · Postby **MillyFan** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:45 am

I'd check out that rumor if I were you before I went around blabbing it. Just some friendly advice.

Postby **Master Kenzo** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 7:52 am

Doing a bit of reasearch (Googling "Johnny Yough Bosch christian") actually produced some positive results. Dunno 'bout the band tho.

Postby **bemanisuperstar** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 8:02 am

Master Kenzo wrote:Doing a bit of reasearch (Googling "Johnny Yough Bosch christian") actually produced some positive results. Dunno 'bout the band tho.

one website mentioned it I wish I still had the linky.

Postby **Haibane Shadsie** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:48 pm

I have some things to say...

I remembered something about Eva. NGE is certainly NOT to be taken as anime that gives accurate Biblical messages at all. It's a science fiction that uses Judeao-Christian symbolism for gimmick, and uses it in the crafting of it's own weird mythology. Nothing more, nothing less.

However, I remember in Eva some quotes about why Gendou and his people started NERV and begun their work on the Human Intrumentality Project. It was about how... all humans are "missing something" and have been yearning to complete that something, and how the project was no less than "finally becomming one with God". It wasn't meant to be Christian in the context of the anime, but it reminded me a lot of what pastors in my churches have talked about - how everyone has a "God shaped hole in their hearts" and about how "all religion is man's attempt to get to God" (Whereas Christianity is God coming down to man). I really wouldn't read too much into Eva, and I'm not trying to here, I just thought the quotes were insightful of the universal human spiritual condition.

As for Trigun... I posted a thing here about "Anime Characters Who Have Affected Your Life." Vash the Stampede is a very important character to me. He has impacted my life in a positive way - because in a weird way, he reminded me of how much Jesus loves me. But, read that topic, please, for the explaination of that. I don't want to get too much into stuff here, I'm afraid of my comments being misunderstood as reading allegory into anime when I'm not... and only citing analogies... and I don't wanna get banned!

Postby **bemanisuperstar** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:19 pm

Haibane Shadsie wrote:I have some things to say...

I remembered something about Eva. NGE is certainly NOT to be taken as anime that gives accurate Biblical messages at all. It's a science fiction that uses Judeao-Christian symbolism for gimmick, and uses it in the crafting of it's own weird mythology. Nothing more, nothing less.

However, I remember in Eva some quotes about why Gendou and his people started NERV and begun their work on the Human Intrumentality Project. It was about how... all humans are "missing something" and have been yearning to complete that something, and how the project was no less than "finally becomming one with God". It wasn't meant to be Christian in the context of the anime, but it reminded me a lot of what pastors in my churches have talked about - how everyone has a "God shaped hole in their hearts" and about how "all religion is man's attempt to get to God" (Whereas Christianity is God coming down to man). I really wouldn't read too much into Eva, and I'm not trying to here, I just thought the quotes were insightful of the universal human spiritual condition.

As for Trigun... I posted a thing here about "Anime Characters Who Have Affected Your Life." Vash the Stampede is a very important character to me. He has impacted my life in a positive way - because in a weird way, he reminded me of how much Jesus loves me. But, read that topic, please, for the explaination of that. I don't want to get too much into stuff here, I'm afraid of my comments being misunderstood as reading allegory into anime when I'm not... and only citing analogies... and I don't wanna get banned!

Everybody inside know it or not has an inkling to Know Jesus I've often said that. I think that is Eva's theme. How We can pervert our inner spirtual urges and what the conquences are if they are bended against God's will. I think God was speaking through Anno dispite Anno saying it's all his own Anti depressent induced nightmare. Either way Eva has a message to give us. I'm sure alot of you might disagree with me on that. and that's fine but it's open for discussion. But if we must debate it we need to keep the state of mind Anno was in when he made Eva in Mind.

I wouldn't really want to call Vash Christ like. Remember what he was forced to do? (if you've seen it you know what I mean) Vash in some ways could be like Paul. as he spent alot of time isolated. Vash and Knives could also be like Cain and Able. But I don't think there's a Christ Figure in trigun. However I think Wolfwood's Cross dispite what it is is a metaphor for christ's love for us. "its heavy because it's so full of Mercy"
actually let me rephrase all this.

We all know Wolfwood has pain he carries this heavycross and all his problems with him.
But jesus Died on the cross for us. Thus we need to not worry realize we were saved and rest our worries on Jesus.
Wolfwood still carries his pain dispite having the answer right infront of him. So his cross apparently has that double meaning.
On one hand it symbolizes the heavy berdon he carries with him due to his past deeds on the other hand It's also a symbol of the Love Jesus has for us. now as for what the Cross Wolfwood carries is something else too. I'm sure that symbolizes something as well.

Any insight into that?

Postby **inkhana** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:33 pm

Just a word of warning: let's not have another one of "those" NGE threads. Those of you who have been here a while know what I'm talking about.

Postby **bemanisuperstar** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:46 pm

inkhana wrote:Just a word of warning: let's not have another one of "those" NGE threads. Those of you who have been here a while know what I'm talking about.

Ok Yeah I really don't like Eva that much anymore. RahXephon is So much better.

So back to the subject.

Besides Eva and Trigun where else have you seen a Chrstian Influence in anime?

Postby **Ashley** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:29 pm

Fruits Basket. Tohru has this amazing way of being able to always see the good in people, despite circumstances or personalities. Reminiscent of:
"Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."

Postby **Haibane Shadsie** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 11:21 pm

Anybody here see "Superbook" or "Flying House"? Those were two animes produced by the Christian Broadcasting Network with Japanese anime companies specifically for the purpose of evangleism. They have lots of Christian symbolism in them... because that's what they were about! If I remember right, I think "Flying House" was more Old Testament oriented. They both had similiar plots - about people going back in time to Biblical times and places.

So, yeah... those are animes with Christian symbolism in them... because that's what they were made for! :lol:

Postby **Technomancer** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:01 am

While I cannot say how influenced by Christianity the film makers were, I'd say "Now and Then, Here and There". One can certainly take away important messages about faith and hope...and forgiveness. A word of to those who haven't seen it though; this is not a children's anime. It is however, one of my favourites and I highly recommend it.

Postby **desertedsun** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:29 pm

Most of Evangelion is actually based on Jewish Folklore. Evangelion in no way, is inspired by the Holy Bible. It is a blasphamis series that heads toward anti-christian beliefs and is in no way inspired by the truth. It is an occultic anime that should be watched with high caution if watched at all.

Postby **bemanisuperstar** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:15 pm

desertedsun wrote:Most of Evangelion is actually based on Jewish Folklore. Evangelion in no way, is inspired by the Holy Bible. It is a blasphamis series that heads toward anti-christian beliefs and is in no way inspired by the truth. It is an occultic anime that should be watched with high caution if watched at all.

Your point? I think that was the whole point and it doesn't have a happy ending anyway.

Moving on

Postby **Azier the Swordsman** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:11 pm

Remember how the in the bible, God worked through people to carry out his plans? I noticed something interesting in Generator Gawl while rewatching it, Kubere had there plans of world domination, and succeeded, however, Gawl, Koji, and Ryo discovered the conspiracy and traveled back through time to stop. Let's say that everything in Generator Gawl is real: Unlikely, yes. But if it was real, would God have been working through Gawl, Koji, and Ryo to ultimately prevent Kubere from succeeding with their conspiracy to control the world? I think so. Kubere had succeeded. But hundreds of years in the future, these three uncovered the truth and began a journey to set things right. I thought this was an intersting way of looking at it.

Postby **Technomancer** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:06 am

Milton!? Heretical??

Postby **bemanisuperstar** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:40 am

Marlboro10tacle wrote:In End of Evangelion, Shinji effectively becomes God, restoring people to life after they had their souls sucked from them by the Uber-Rei.

Also, there are several theologial references in Eva. For a start, Lilith is mentioned in John Milton's heretical epic Paradise Lost as being the type of serpent that tempted Adam and Eve.

The Evangelion robots are also based upon Babylonian gods, who were demonised by the Catholic Church around the time of the Crusades. One of them may be based on Moloch - cast as one of Satan's generals in Paradise Lost - but I cannot be sure, as I haven'r watched Eva in a long time, nor am I up to scratch on my mythology.

I don't want to firther turn this into an EVA thread BUT I think the way EVA ends is really up to the viewer.

THe biggest theory is nobody was brought back but Shinji and Asuka. and they effectivly became new Adam and Eve.

Postby **CobaltAngel** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:41 pm

Well, in "Night at the Galatic Railway"... you know what? I'm too lazy to type this out again... can I just quote another post?

I said:

CobaltAngel wrote:Night at the Galactic Railway! It doesn't hit you over the head with bible verses or anything, but it definitly has christian Implications. And the little girl says something about that she wasn't sad that she had to die because they where going to meet their heavenly father. ^_^V

And then, Technomancer said:

Technomancer wrote:On the other hand, "Night of the Milky Way Railway" (I've only read the book, not seen the show) is actully Buddhist in intent. That said, the Kenji Miyazawa had a deep and abiding respect for Christianity. Interestingly, some of his philosophy would also influence the anime series "Earth Maiden Arjuna" (long after his death of course). As CobaltAngel said however, "Night" can certainly be seen in a Christian light, as can many other series that carry strongly moral themes.

Postby **Haibane Shadsie** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 4:42 pm

Please, let us not turn this into an argument about Eva. I enjoyed it purely as science-fiction, and as I said earlier in this thread, I took it as a take on the universal human spiritual condtion (we are all looking for something to complete us) - it's just that, end the end NGE did not come to the right conclusion about what, exactly, is needed for that completion and how to get there. As an anime, it doesn't offend me as much as AMERICAN fiction that twists and plays with Christianity until it is made into something unrecognizable as Christian at all. I mean, AMERICA, is, unfortunately, still preceived throughout the world as a "Christian nation", though it is largely post-Christian.

I was talking to an online aquiantence of mine who is a big Eva fan... (he's an atheist, by the way), but he reads a lot, studies political philosophy and all that. He was talking about a Jewish mystic legend he'd read, "The Golem of Prague". I believe it was set in World War II, but I'm not sure. It invovled a Rabbi who created a golem, a creature made from mud, and imbued with life (I saw this legend on The X-Files, too.

) Anyway, this creature is basically a body without a soul (like a ghost is supposed to be a soul without a body). The golem was created to protect the Jewish community from its persecutors, but the creature got out of hand, and became very violent. In the end, the Rabbi changed the character for "life" on the golem's forhead to the character for "death", and thus destroyed the creature.

I'm not even sure if I'm getting the legend right, but it's a little legend that my aquaintence knows and he thinks that Neon Genesis Evangelion was inspired by it. The way he told it just seems very NGE-like.

In short, yes, I'm a serious Christian. Yes, I enjoyed NGE - but I didn't take it as truth, and I didn't let the gimmick Judeo-Christian symbolism bother me - I just took it as an interesting science fiction story with intersting and tortured characters. I wouldn't take it too seriously - and, to those who think "what kind of Christian is she if she ENJOYED NGE?!!" I tell thee that it is God's place to judge the heart, NOT yours.

By the way, NGE is not on my list of "favorite" animes, and I haven't even watched the series in over a year. Pheh!

Postby **bemanisuperstar** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 4:46 pm

How id Haibei raime or whatever it's called?

Postby **Haibane Shadsie** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:09 pm

Haibane Renmei? Oh, it's EXCELLENT! It's just... a WORK OF ART!

Okay, so I've only actually seen the first 4 episodes. I've read episode summaries online, though. Beautiful story, beautiful characters, very wistful tone. It's just... what I love!

The story is about this mysterious little town, surrounded by a wall. Humans live there, but what the story centers on is the Haibane. They are beings who are born into the town from myserious cocoons. The story follows Rakka, a newly-born Haibane.

All the Haibane are born... not as babies, but at a certain age. Some are born as children, some are teenagers. The main cast are a group of young women. The Haibane grow wings, thus their name, "Haibane" (Charcoal Feathers or Ash-Wings), and they are given halos. They aren't technically angels, but they look like the traditional depiction of angels. They're wings are too small for them to fly, though. The Haibane have a sense that they had once all been humans, and once lived somewhere beyond the walls of the town, but they don't have any memories of their previous lives. This makes Rakka a very confused and wistful character, and, you join her in her journey of self-discovery.

No one in the town, human or Haibane, are ever to go beyond the town's walls. If one goes beyond the wall, one can never, ever return. No one knows what is on the other side. The only beings that can go beyond the wall are the town's birds (crows are big in the series), and the Toga, a group of tradespeople who come from outside the town and talk via a communicator with the Haibane Renmei (Charcoal Feather Federation), the organization which "guarantees the lives of the Haibane" and sets the rules for them. The trade done financially supports Old Home, the place where the Haibane live.

The Haibane all must work for the good of others in jobs. They are not allowed to make money, though. They put down their earings and expenses in a little notebook. The Haibane are only allowed to use old things that the humans of the town don't need anymore. (Here's where the crows play a symbolic role... being scavengers, and the Haibane are like scavengers, but they have to be, as that is the only way they are allowed to live). The town is very protective of the Haibane, as the humans see them as being something of good luck.

According to the episode summaries I've read, the whole series winds up being a symbolism-laden tale of friendship, love, and redemption. My favorite character in the series, Reki, one of the older Haibane (but not the oldest), and one who acts almost like a mother-figure to most of the cast... she has a sharp attitude and she smokes, but it only winds up being defensive mechanisms to push others away - as she has committed some sort of sin in her past that she is unable to forgive herself for. Rakka helps her on her path to redemption. (Well, what I've read of further episodes... I just can't wait until the rest of the series is released in the US and I have money to buy the rest of the DVDs, as I only have the first with the first 4 eps.. )

I am IN LOVE with this anime and MUST see the rest! MUST!

Postby **desertedsun** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:04 pm

I'm not judging anyone that likes Evangelion, but let me try to convince people that it is anti-christian. ok, here it goes
In Evangelion, the "angels" want to destroy humans because they covet the lives that humans live. In the Bible, angels serve God. In Evangelion, Lilith (Adams first wife which he divorces, according to Jewish folklore). In the Bible, Adam only has one wife, Eve. There are many more things that I can type up, but then I'll get one of these replies:
1) It's just sci-fi, don't take it serious!
2) Don't judge me, only God can do that!
3) Let's not argue about Evangelion!
If your gonna post something like the above, then do it. I'll just reply to it!
Eva is sci-fi and it's not real, but it's still an anime series that is anti-christian. Do you ever see a christian go to the theaters to watch a Mormon movie and tell everyone how much they enjoyed it? I think not. Ths is off the subject just like everything I post, but here's some advice about newspaper reportes. If any want to interview you about anime to be in the newspaper, say no. I was on the front page of the entertainment section on the West Valley View because they interviewed me about what anime culture was. I told them everything in an interview and when the paper came out, they wrote nothing but lies!

Postby **Ashley** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:08 pm

Moving right along past Evangelion people...we've had this discussion far too many times. Other animes?

Postby **Stephen** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:09 pm

For Petes sake folks! Can we stop the NGE crap? Goodness..everytime I see someone mention NGE on this site its to argue about it. Please drop it ok? Some of us are a little sick of the 50 million threads posts and debates over this anime. So if someone would be so kind, change the subject for this threads sake.

Postby **bemanisuperstar** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:30 pm

Shatterheart wrote:For Petes sake folks! Can we stop the NGE crap? Goodness..everytime I see someone mention NGE on this site its to argue about it. Please drop it ok? Some of us are a little sick of the 50 million threads posts and debates over this anime. So if someone would be so kind, change the subject for this threads sake.

Sorry I started the whole EVA thing here.

anyways any more comments on Haibane Renmei?

Postby **Haibane Shadsie** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:14 pm

The West Valley View.... grrrr. No wonder.

I'm a graphic designer for The Desert Sun... rival paper... and I've heard a lot of the politics that go on. The 'View likes to badmouth Buckeye all the time... I think their distribution numbers are shady, too... Just... not a paper to trust.

As for Eva... I think it is an anime that can be taken in a variety of ways. I do think it is a highly overrated anime. I don't think it's anti-Christian... I think it's a secular story that has its own twisted mythology and likes to use themes Jewish mysticism and Christian symbols for gimmick, is all. It's kind of like "The X-Files" or "The Matrix"... fictions that use some of the themes but have their own wierd mythologies... and can be taken in almost any way a viewer wishes. I wouldn't recommend it to everybody, and certainly not to young Christians or to anyone who is looking for any kind of show that depicts the truth of Christianity.

Then again, I like Hellsing, and wouldn't recommend it to most fellow Christians for similiar reasons. Also, it's got so much blood that... um... you'd have to be someone who doesn't mind blood, or even enjoys it, to like it. Personally, I like some blood and gore in my fiction, but I am a creepy individual. It's not an anime I'd recommend to many people.

Petshop of Horrors... I like it, too, but I wouldn't recommend it to many here. It doesn't use or twist Christian symbols like the above two, and is fairly innocuous as far as spritual stuff goes, but it's got gore and is quite, quite creepy... and is something that I don't think most of the posters here would enjoy.

I, however, stay away from some things, things that are just too disturbing. I wouldn't watch any hentai title if you paid me. I also make it a point to stay, far, FAR away from "Angel Sanctuary" given what I've read about it. While NGE uses twisted Judeo-Christian symbolism for gimmick... that.. .from what I've read, is blantantly anti-Christian, perhaps even satanic.

Postby **Stephen** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:44 pm

"Please drop it ok?"

Wow and here I thought I was pretty clear about this..by keeping this little thing going your only going to have a cute little arguement thread. Which when it does go there...as all NGE threads do...this thread will be closed. So please...move on.

Chrstian Morals and stories in anime

Chrstian Morals and stories in anime

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