CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

http://www.amazon.com/Wolverine-Goes-He ... es+to+hell

I actually read it, it was a really good take on the character, awesome characterization and you feel for Logan, however I can see why this would be uncomfortable to read for some due to the subject material. Everyone would assume Hell is a lot more terrible than fiction tends to portray. Apparently if you are Wolverine, you can beat the Devil(to be fairy, the Marvel universe used the term loosely, its actually one of the many hell lords like Mephisto, so it's a high ranking demon claiming to be Satan)

The plot deals with Demon possessed Wolverine killing and targeting everyone that Logan cares for while Logan's soul is taken to Hell to be confronted by Satan, and he would be tortured and has to escape while at the same time fighting dead enemies and villians he killed in his long lifetime, if you are familiar with Wolverine, you see supporting cast members and familiar faces. Pretty interesting take. with unexpected help and allies. While the Logan's friends and family especially the X-men was dight a demonically possessed Wolverine.

http://www.amazon.com/Wolverine-vs-X-Me ... M97NY0ZNKA

this 2nd book deals with Wolverine having escape from hell, having to fight over dominion over his body against the demons. with help by the X-men(living and dead) as well as famous Marvel Exorcist Damion Hellstrom(who happens to be the son of Satan or some high demon claiming to be) and the Ghost Riders Johnny Blaze and Danny Ketch.

Thanks to positive influences by Nightcrawler who's a believer, Wolverine is a believer himself, however he feels like he doesn't deserve heaven and pretty accepting that he will go to hell for all the bad things he did. Which of course, that's far off how Christianity is really about and what Christ did.

Hmm...Interesting, but I'm gonna have to say I don't enjoy fictional works about hell. Admittedly, I've watched a couple anime that use elements of hell/demons/so forth, but overall, I tend to avoid it. I don't like seeing hell made light of or watered down. *shrug* But that's just me.

In general, I think there are very few theological parallels, let alone lessons, to be drawn from things like this.

There was actually another time when the x-men went into hell to go rescue Nightcrawler. SPOILER: Highlight text to read: Turns out it wasn’t really hell but a hell-like illusion, created to trap Nightcrawler by a woman who believe he had killed her son. It was a comic right before the Days of Future Past storyline.

The plot is sort of ‘eh.’ Honestly, the only good quality is how it sets the characters up for the next batch of issues. I was a little annoyed with it because 1) it’s view of hell was based on Dante’s Devine Comedy, which I find to be unoriginal. 2) It’s rather pseudo-religious; it’s has more of a mystic theme than theological. As a result, we have: 3) the comic misses the point of Christianity. There’s no notion of a forgiving God. SPOILER: Highlight text to read: Though eventually Nightcrawler is let go by the woman, it’s because it turns out Nightcrawler didn’t kill her son. Or at least, Nightcrawler did, but only after said son left Nightcrawler no choice. So there isn’t even really a metaphorical notion of God forgiving sin.

Rzerox21xx wrote:Apparently if you are Wolverine, you can beat the Devil

This sounds like Marvel piling a list of accomplishments on Wolverine. Has retractable metal claws, check. Survives atomic warheads, check. Can go one-on-one with the Hulk, check. Takes on demons without blinking, check. Etc, check, etc…
Ridiculous? Awesome? Who can say?

ClaecElric4God wrote:Hmm...Interesting, but I'm gonna have to say I don't enjoy fictional works about hell Admittedly, I've watched a couple anime that use elements of hell/demons/so forth, but overall, I tend to avoid it. I don't like seeing hell made light of or watered down. *shrug* But that's just me.

I feel the same way. I’m interested when a story brings something this up, but more often than not, I end up annoyed.

Dante's Inferno is still the king of "character goes to Hell" stories.

And now I'm having flashbacks to an argument I had on another site about whether Divine Comedy was satire or not.

Nate wrote:Dante's Inferno is still the king of "character goes to hell stories.

True, true. Well, if we're defining 'king' as being most influential, and probably most thought out, I agree. I would just prefer if writers referenced the actual Bible, instead of Inferno.

Unfortunately a lot of writers, and people in general, don't know that the Divine Comedy differs from the contents of the Bible in its description of hell. There are sects of Christianity that describe hell using references from Inferno.

John_Smith wrote:There was actually another time when the x-men went into hell to go rescue Nightcrawler. SPOILER: Highlight text to read: Turns out it wasn’t really hell but a hell-like illusion, created to trap Nightcrawler by a woman who believe he had killed her son. It was a comic right before the Days of Future Past storyline.

The plot is sort of ‘eh.’ Honestly, the only good quality is how it sets the characters up for the next batch of issues. I was a little annoyed with it because 1) it’s view of hell was based on Dante’s Devine Comedy, which I find to be unoriginal. 2) It’s rather pseudo-religious; it’s has more of a mystic theme than theological. As a result, we have: 3) the comic misses the point of Christianity. There’s no notion of a forgiving God. SPOILER: Highlight text to read: Though eventually Nightcrawler is let go by the woman, it’s because it turns out Nightcrawler didn’t kill her son. Or at least, Nightcrawler did, but only after said son left Nightcrawler no choice. So there isn’t even really a metaphorical notion of God forgiving sin.

Just to add to this, Nightcrawler who been deceased snice 2010, is actually coming back and fighting alongside the X-Men in Heaven against his father Azazel(you remember him from First Class) who trying to take over both Heaven and Hell In the new series Amazing X-men. I guess it downplay God's omnipotentness that some demons can simply invade heaven and attack the souls there and need the X-men for help instead, of just having God simply ending this with just a gesture. Wolverine and Northstar(who's the first gay outted marvel hero) end up traveling to purgatory. Jason Aaron the writer who who also did Wolverine goes to hell, seem fond involving Heaven and Hell on his stories did something similar with his Ghost Rider run which has a Rebellious Angel Zadkiel trying to take over heaven and managed to almost take the throne.(once again the idea of All powerful God doesn't cross his mind but I guess God doing the same thing to Zadkiel and Azazel like he did to Lucifer would not be as interesting as the X-men or Ghost Rider coming in to defeat them).

Rzerox21xx wrote:I guess it downplay God's omnipotentness that some demons can simply invade heaven and attack the souls there and need the X-men for help instead, of just having God simply ending this with just a gesture.

You...you realize that this is an argument atheists use against the existence of God, right? "If God really is omnipotent and cares about humans, why doesn't he stop our suffering?" God using humans (or in this case, mutants I guess) to stop bad things is a key theme of the bible.

that might be true, I was just asking this, since the battlefield involves heaven which is God's domain.

Xeno wrote:Unfortunately a lot of writers, and people in general, don't know that the Divine Comedy differs from the contents of the Bible in its description of hell. There are sects of Christianity that describe hell using references from Inferno.

This is my exact problem. Research is a neglected part of story creation. Though to be fair with this example, they were going for the Dante reference, and the religious aspect was secondary.

Rzerox21xx wrote:that might be true, I was just asking this, since the battlefield involves heaven which is God's domain.

I don't know what other churches teach on this matter, and the verses I can reference are few, but I've meant taught that Heaven is currently incorruptible, but was not always the case (Because of Satan's fall). For story purposes, I like the idea of tweaking this a little bit to state: Heaven won't be corruptible in the future. I can see a good story in that.
Now what Jason Aaron going to do with this? I have no clue. He's confirmed that he's a atheist, but grew up in a home where where Christianity was drilled into him. He seems to go out of his way to bring religion up, but without any political commentary. At least none that I've noticed.