CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

with the new book from christopher paolini out, I was wondering what are your views about fantasy, whether or not it is satanic, etc. Now, I don't want a war or anything, please respect other people's posts, I just want to see as to what you guys think.
Personally, I like fantasy so long as it has a good morale/point in the story it's okay. And if it's in an entirely different world (e.g. LotR, CoN, Inheritence trilogy, etc.) then, the writer can do more things like making using magic (not magik, but like LotR magic or fantasy magic, not satanic magic)

I believe that it's up to what the writer is trying to shoot for...I've seen some fantasy that is what I'd consider satanic and I've seen fantasy that is what I'd consider to be christian. I don't think that it's the style so much as the latent idealogy behind the writing. It's the same with any kind of book. As for myself I enjoy a good fantasy tale but I'm not really a big fan or anything.

I will reinforce from an administrative perspective that argument will be discouraged... though this subject is almost gauranteed to generate discussion, which I hope will remain healthy.

Personally, I have some issues with those who condemn fantasy. Not issues with their theology or intentions, but with their method. Nearly anything can be used for evil, and I feel that many of the declaimations of fantasy can be applied to nearly any medium, including the Bible. Hence, I challenge not their statements, but their claim that these statements are of great concern (though, certainly, they are worth some).

When I was younger and first began living as a Christian out of choice and not because of parental decree, I was deeply troubled by the idea of fantasy, with magic and gods etc. It took me several years of prayer and study into church teaching (and books thrown out) before coming to the conclusion that the genre was OK... it was a matter of the content of the individual authors that needed to be evaluated. I felt OK with series like Tolkein's LotR, The Wheel of Time series (when it was still good) and Robert E Howard's Conan and Kull and Solomon Kane short stories and even the anime Record of Lodoss War; but tended to dislike authors like RA Salvatore, with what seemed to be anti-Christan attitudes and Terry Goodkind with the excessive sexual and demonic themes (disclosure: I quit reading midway through book 2 (Stone of Tears), so I don't know if it got better or worse).

Ultimately, I think it depends on your conscience. If reading them deeply troubles you on whether it is OK as a Christian to read them, then maybe you ought to put them aside for awhile (or permanently).

I have more of a beef with many authors' lack of originality then I do with most of the standard elements.

hmm...I've thought about this one a lot too. And I agree with what animeheretic said, about listening to your conscience. I don't think that anyone can say what is or isn't okay for another person. I heard a pastor say one time, that if you feel it's wrong or have doubts, it's probably a sin for you to read/watch/do it.

Of course if you're still under 18 you have to respect what your parents feel is wrong for you to read.(mine don't like magic) I used to hate that, but now I'm like, whoa they kept me from a lot of not-that-great stuff. But if you like fantasy and would maybe like a Christian book, try Hinds Feet on High Places. It's an allegory.

Personally, I have no problem with it, and that's all I'll say about that.

Well, depending on the type of magic and such. Stuff with demon summoning, isn't really my thing, because that can actually be done. Unlike a dude shooting a fireball from his fingertips.

*points to her screen name* So, obviously I like SOME fantasies.

But, fantasy doesn't always have to deal with magic use. It can have elves and dragons in it and be fantasy (but, those are 'magical' creatures, so...). Magic is viewed by a lot of christians as evil. It can be evil though. I mean when the villans use it, they use it for evil, but when the heros use it its used for good or good intentions. However, that doesn't mean that the type of magic being used is good. Just because your a 'good' person doesn't make you perfect in the sight of God. We are all sinners and we sin every day, so no matter how good we are we still do evil. But that is a little off topic.

Magic, some uses of it, such as the types that use the old langueages witches used in mideval times for example. They were real spells used to do domonic things. If the author takes those spells and uses them for the good characters, I highly doubt that its 'okay' for any christian to read. Because they are demonic spells to begin with. And just because your good and mean well doesn't make it right to do something bad. The ends DO NOT justify the means!!

Other magic, like the type found in Lord of the Rings, The Inheritance Trilogy . They are different, and Paolini's characters use a lot more magic that Tokein's characters do. But the villans do evil, and the heros do 'good'. As long as you don't cheer for the bad guys magic uses and powers (and know that magic isn't real) I think you're okay to read fantasy. But if you find yourself fancying the villans' uses of magic more than the heros' uses, I don't think you should read it. As a matter of fact, you'd probably want to put fantasy aside and rethink your christianity if evil appeals to you more than good does in any aspect of life (fictional or not).

Well, thats all for now. I might post more on this later.

Lots of people have made good points already, so I feel I'll just be reiterating them.

I love fantasy. I sculpt fantasy creatures; it's what I do for a semi-living. I have no problem with fantasy in general, as long as one keeps things in perspective. It's fiction. I know there are some people out there who fancy themselves to be dragons and gryphons and what-not. Yeah, you heard me right... some people actually think they are these creatures. That takes it just a little bit too far.

Then there is the more dangerous side of it -- people who practice magic. The bible is clear on that -- it's forbidden to practice magic.

But reading about it? If the fantasy book doesn't glorify evil, or outline specific spells and how to do them, then I personally don't have a problem with it. I will not read Terry Goodkind, for example, because of what I've heard about his books. But I have read and enjoyed many other fantasy books.

If you want an example of an outstanding fantasy author who also happens to be a Christian, I recommend Stephen Lawhead. Try the Song of Albion trilogy or the Pendragon Cycle.

There is nothing wrong with fantasy, havn't you ever run outside with your friends with your friends when you we're younger? Thats fantasy, in a different form though, I Persoally love fantasy as an escape from the real world or just somthing to do....although, be carefull what fantasy titles you pick up, D&D for instance is a nono.

I have no problem at all with fantasy in general. But there is a lot of fantasy I will stay away from.
I'm not a big fan of the all the D&D stuff. I mean, I've never played the game or read the books, I'm just not really into that stuff at all. And really, if you were going to get into it, where do you start? There's only hundreds upon hundreds of books, games, cards, toys, ect. out there!

But people who condemn anything fantasy related, they really annoy me.
I guess it's kind of like manga and anime, a lot of people look at it as evil.

I love the entire genre of Sci Fi/Fantasy/Horror.As far as it goes I have been
reading and watching Fantasy per se ever since I could read Fairy Stories on my
own.I really don't understand why some Christians condemn Fantasy when there
are a lot of great Christian fantasy series out there particualiarly The Chronicles
Of Narnia and Lord Of The Rings.
As far as it goes Magic in fantasy stories doesn't bother me as it is an important
ingredient to the story a lot of the time.
On the whole though I do not believe in Magic outside of the realm of Fantasy.
I do not believe that Magic exists in the real world.

mitsuki lover wrote:On the whole though I do not believe in Magic outside of the realm of Fantasy.
I do not believe that Magic exists in the real world.

While magic doesn't exist in the sense generally portrayed in popular fantasy, I think that it is important to note that there are many who do believe in magic. More critically, if you hold to a Christian worldview there is evil power at work in the world. It is generally because of this that Christians oppose fantasy, though (and my other post addresses this better, though hardly thoroughly) I do feel this position is in error.

I believe in Magick. I believe it is wrong. The sin behind it takes MANY forms, not all of them supernatural. Control and manipulation are things that humans have done from first sin...

Of course, controling things around us is also something given to us by God. So why was magic strictly forbidden in the Bible? I think that's it. We're seeking power that God didn't give us. I think that some uses of technology are evil, even. It's no different... Whether you're a Necromancer or a... Ok, I won't say that one (haha, I didn't mean that as a refference to a CAA member, honest) When we do things to try to give ourselves a level of control that God didn't intend us to have, that is magic. Whether it is supernatural, with machines, or with words... Now, as for what level of control we are allowed to have and what we aren't, well frankly, for a Christian, our level of control should be both absolute and non-existant. If we are totally submitted to God, we should have near absolute control (over everything but people's wills...) but that's because God is directing our steps, so we don't do something wrong with it. Ask for anything, provided it's not for selfish reasons, and provided you have trust, and you shall receive it. Outside of him, we should really have no control. As normal humans, not Christians, the more control people have, the less likely they are to turn to God. It is harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a camel to pass through a needle's eye. He has control because of the money, and the more he has, the less likely he is to submit that to God. People don't want to give up control, and that's the problem with Magick. That's my view on it, anyhow.

As for fantasy magic, I don't think that is the same at all.. Fantasy as macro or micro analogy is entirely different than real magick, and fantasy as a "good story" doesn't even need to alarm people. You should be more worried about the messages behind the fantasy, which is almost never "magic is good" because the magic is almost always merely a device. There are always other issues at the core of the fantasy story.

I think it interesting when speaking of Magick(rather than simply Magic)that
Merlin the greatest Wizard in both Fantasy and Legend was also a Christian or at least had Christian leanings.Stephen Lawhead wrote one of the best books on
Merlin where he's portrayed as being a Druid.
FYI:If I remember right the Druids never persecuted Christians.

mitsuki lover, I'm reading that book right now. And I must say, it is an AWESOME book! I love Stephen Lawhead's books!

mitsuki lover wrote:FYI:If I remember right the Druids never persecuted Christians.

Dude. I could seriously hug you right now. In fact, I think I will.

The Druids get SUCH a bad rep for some reason...I feel sorry for them. They get blamed for a ton of stuff they never did. And they accepted Christianity quite readily and in large numbers.

Hey, since I've never posted here before, I thought I'd find the most controversial post I could, as fast as possible and post in that.

-=-
To quote Jman:
There is nothing wrong with fantasy, havn't you ever run outside with your friends with your friends when you we're younger? Thats fantasy, in a different form though, I Persoally love fantasy as an escape from the real world or just somthing to do....although, be carefull what fantasy titles you pick up, D&D for instance is a nono.
-=-

Personally, I basically agree with Jman on this, with the exception that I've played D&d and would do it again - in the campaigns I play in, I get the group to agree beforehand that the pagan aspects of the game either won't be included, or won't be focused on. We play it like the dude with a fireball, instead of demon summoning or whatnot. The game is just a thing to do - it's the players that make the game fun or not fun, whatever you decide to play.

So anyway, hello.

it really does depend i mean c.s. lewisis book the lion the witch and the wardrobe was fantasy and lewis was a christian man...so yeah

I prefer a more "mechanical" magic in my fantasy stories, much like the stuff in the "Magic" menus of Final Fantasy games.

.rai//

I enjoy reading fantasy. The element of magic doesn't bother me very much. Since there are no limitations in terms of having to obey scientific laws and the natural order of things, the stories can have great creativity. The only thing which can make me detest any type of book is if I strongly disagree with the author's ideology (e.g. Philip Pullman's series which begins with the Golden Compass).

I'm not surprised that people find Terry Goodkind's series a bit too much (actually, that's an enormous understatement), since it deals with how to treat absolutely evil people. The story seems to support the pagan/classical virtues with a heavy leaning toward justice (the theological virtues being of little importance in that world), which is why the fourth wizard rule is surprising : "There is magic in forgiveness -the magic to heal! In the forgiveness you grant, and more so in the forgiveness you receive." Forgiveness is rarely, if ever, given in these books; so, that rule seems out of place. Though I disagree with the author in some matters, the books have an interesting point of view.

Also, having read eight books of that series, I was surprised when my fellow students found Dante's Inferno and Chaucer's Canterbury tales too graphic, especially the latter.

I for one am glad that the anti-Harry Potter nonsense has died down for the most part. I hear very few book-burning instances nowadays and I'm very glad.

Ya know, the funny thing about the "book burning" stuff is that they had to BUY the book in the first place, meaning they were still supporting what they thought was "satanic".

Hmm.. never thought of that. Book burners: D'oh!

Unless they shoplifted them.

Which would be bad.

Personally, I like fantasy. It's one of my favorite genres to write, and some of my favorite books are fantasy.

But there are a lot of fantasy books I don't read because I'm uncomfortable with the level/type of magic in them.

I don't worry about the magic as I figure that in the OT it's mainly has to do with
idolatry.Besides in fantasy there's a clear delineation between White and Black Magic,usually Black Magic users end up getting burnt in the end.

i usually look at fantasy like i do any other genre:

do the main characters act in a positive way, or if they don't is there a viable consiquence? Are the "rules" followed?
does the author refrain from putting excessive language or sexuality in the story, as opposed to adding in unnesecery content?
Is the morale of the story positive, or if not does it identify a problem with culture today in a obvious way?

if the answers are yes, then I don't usually have a problem with it.

I very much so enjoy fantasy. In fact, I'm reading LOTR for the seventh time right now, *book marks TT* So long as the context is apropriate (sp? I'm blonde, be nice >.<), then I believe it is totally fine. Now, if it is something that would cause you to stumble, the Bible says to get rid of it! (It would be better for you to cut off your right hand than to go on sinning.) And I'm all for that. There was a book an aquatance recomended a few years back called, "Faerie Wars" and "The Purple Emperor" which were 'supposedly' fantasy. Within the first chapter were major grotesque things, which shall not be repeated here. In Christopher Paolini's case, I quite enjoyed "Eragon," and therefore I will most definately finish the series/ trilogy (don't know exactly which it is...). When I was done with "Eragon" I gave it to a friend to borrow, but quickly took it back; As a matter of fact, this friend was Sora(sOathkeeper). Anyway, toward the end of "Eldest" there were some things I didn't like, but looking back I guess you could say it was more because I disagreed with the different religious veiws of the dwarves and elves and humans, but at the time 'twas very annoying. However, now that I've read this far into these books, there is no way I'll be able to put them down and not regret wondering what the end was like. If I was barely at the begining and put them down, that'd be fine: but they're great reading!

...

Well, there's my in-depth perspective on Fantasy: totally fine so long as it doesn't upset Biblical aspects. Long enough for ya? ^-^*

Hmm, I write Fantasy, but I write an odd sort of fantasy with Demons *DUN DUN DUN * Vampires, religion & magic... and yet, somehow... in the end, it all comes out being pretty PG rated!

In the way I write, I do it so of course if we have a fairly lighter story with a vampire in it, he won't be an extremely dark character, he will have a quirk or so, because he is sort of ...evil... but he is amongst lighter feeling company, so its not as if he'll act like some "I like to kill. Blood!"

Also, what I do with religion and magic is I make it very clear what is considered good and bad, and I usually stick with the religions I know the best...oddly being Christianity-- and I joined this board just to learn more about the religion o_o;;! Usually the good vs. evil scenes are the only violent ones that there are... I'm not good with violence for some reason...


^.^;; I can't seem to think of anything else about my process of making my fun little stories...