CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Brave New World, by A. Huxley (always forget how to spell that first name) is the assigned novel in my English class this year.

I've got mixed feeling about this book. Intellectually, it has some amazing, relevant ideas and perceptions into our current society. On the other hand, the very nature of the society he is depicting means that he focusses on sexual matters a lot. Not in detail, though. I understand WHY he does so in the book, but it's still pretty disturbing; which, I suppose, is his intention. Still...

I'm also planning to read 1984 as I've been told it relates to the dystopian idea in Brave New World.

So.. what did you think of the book? I'd be very interested to hear your views on it.

O you POOR soul! I studied BNW (And Blade Runner - The Directors Cut) for english as well.

When I first read the book, the only thing I thought was "What the?!!?!" I was really surprised we were even studying the thing (Christian school here). But, after we did study it, I began to appreciate what he was trying to say.

Of course, this was all over a year ago, so I've forgotten what it was he WAS trying to say

I started reading it but I found it very boring. It seemed similar to 1984, but if I'm correct 1984 was published in 1945 and Brave New World is from 1937, so this would be the predecessor. What I read of it appeared to forsee a dystopian society (maybe the author realised another war was to break out and effect the whole world).

I enjoyed the book, as it was too short to become boring (by my standards, anyway). The concept, overall, I liked better than 1984. It seems that discussions of either book inevitably bring up the other.

Yes, the book does address sexual matters to a fairly high degree. Then again, soma is focused upon throughout nearly the entire story, nearly constantly. That is actually the aspect of Brave New World that I liked best: rule by pleasure, not by fear. In some ways it is like our society today; people rush about and never stop to think.

I agree with UC. Although, I think I better keep from elaborating. It might get people off-topic more than a little...

For some reason my English teacher loves to assign books like that for us to read- she's assigned us Animal Farm, 1984, Brave New World... The list goes on. It's really depressing the stuff she makes us read. Can't we read a comedy for once or something?

Overall a pretty good book for what it is meant to do, though I am by no means pleased by the way Huxley relegated Christianity to the savages and the way he handled what it became.

I agree - the use of pleasure to control a population was an intriguing idea. And it does seem a little depressing... but not entirely in my opinion. (so far - I'm almost finished).
Yes, the way in which Christianity was handled and obvious Christian references didn't sit too comfortably with me.

I haven't found it boring at all - though the way it is written can be annoying at times (especially in one of those first chapters where the viewpoint is shifted constantly so that you get only a few sentences from each scene. It's effective and delivers some of Huxley's ideas well, but I found it irritating ). The ideas presented in the book are pretty amazing and the relevance to today a little scary.

In any case, it provides good material for an end of year essay because it is so deep.

Yes, the way in which Christianity was handled and obvious Christian references didn't sit too comfortably with me.

On the other hand, John was a sympathetic character and also considered a Savage, so I don't think that being lumped in with that social group was itself a commentary on Christianity or organized religion (although certain other aspects of Huxley's views, of course, must come to bear).

Regarding Christianity in Brave New World: I once read a commentary by Huxley about his own story. He said that, were he to write the story over again, he would do it very differently because he felt that there should have been middle ground between the insanity of the savages or the insanity of the civilized. However, he said that were he to change it, while something would be gained something would also be lost. In any case, my general impression was that the religion of the savages wasn't his personal view on organized religion.

That's one of the problems with writing a story. You HAVE to make some sacrifices. If you make the point glaringly obvious, then no one will miss it, but some people will think you meant more than you did. On the other side of that coin, if you DON'T make it obvious, you'll lose 75% of the readers. (That is, they'll miss your point). It's a question of literature vs novel, I guess. Where's SpiritusVult, anyway? He's the one who should be commenting here. He's the writer...

I would think any changes Huxley would consider would be because too many people missed his point.

I don't think his view of Christians as savages should be alarming or disturbing to anyone, to be honest. It's been a long time since I read it, but here are my lasting impressions of the Christian topic:

The savages where people who lived outside of the society. This is the basic definition of a savage in any time period, by the way - it has little to do with being crude or violent, just adhering to a different set of societal norms.

In this context, I should hope Christians would be looked down upon by the majority society. At least, I certainly hope we would resist their attempts to control society through sterilization and drug use. The brave new world Huxley paints is not compatible with the lifestyle required of us by God, so we would have no choice but to completely reject it. That society’s reaction would then, apparently, be to toss us from it – force us to live separately. So be it.

*slips in quietly*

No debates, please.


Incidentally, the word "barbarian" comes from the latin barbarus and does not necisarily imply inferiority. It more or less translates out as "foriegner." That label was given by the romans to anyone who did not speak their tounge.

Perhaps I should clarify: Huxley said that when he wrote the novel, he felt it more or less reflected his views (however, as oldphilosopher said this isn't a painfully obvious point). After years had passed, however, the book no longer fully reflected what he thought about the world (there was sanity). But he felt that even if this modification added something to the story, it would also take something it originally had.

Well, in a meeting with Oldphilosopher, he suggested I comment, so here it is. I wasn't blessed enough to be able to study BNW in class, thus all my opinions on it are soley my own (so it is only I who am to be blamed for them).

Huxley was making the point, not that the savages were bad, but like termyt wrote, it more refers to a controlled society, through various means. One of those means has already been mentioned, that of Soma (aka opiates). However, another very powerful method of control was that of social engineering, namely controlling information (see The Net (1995 version)). The result of such a control in the case of BNW is a very placid society which is exemplified in the last act where the savage is put on display and his acts are a source of amusment.

In reference to religion being relageted to the savages: I don't think that Huxley was saying it was bad thing. In fact, if the socialized group was control then the savages were free, and I find that Christianity is the most freeing ideas on this earth. Huxley even went so far as to say that any kind of truly free thinking didn't belong in the regulated society and so one of the main characters (sorry I forget the name) was relegated to an island of the best and brightest. That is not to say that I agree with his version of Christianity. It, like everything else in his book, seems to be created to serve as a warning of where society can go if we don't watch ourselves. For me, that means absolute surrender to the will of the Lord. That's freedom and control. What can I say? God likes paradoxes.

Wow - I'm finding all these views amazingly relevant and useful as I'm reading this book for English class. Thank you very much. .

I'm sorry that I wasn't very clear when I commented the way in which Christianity was handled didn't sit too comfortably with me - what I meant was the way in which the Jesus of the savages was worshipped with a whole lot of other gods - personally that really seemed to reduce Him to the level of an idol in that situation.

Some things in the book don't sit comfortably with me, but I understand why - and it makes me take a different perspective and second look at my understanding of freedom, society, induviduality, etc. I'm really enjoying the book.

Thanks for the clarification, UC and CreatureArt. Like I said, it's been a while - like 17 years since I read it, so my recollection is a little foggy.

And I'm glad you are enjoying the book, CreatureArt. I think it's important for us to read books that challenge our world views. Through these challenges, God can refine and strengthen the truth within us so long as we seek Him first in all things.

Like Talame, I also studied the book last year (we were in the same class), and I found it hard to get into, but very interesting to study. I came to the conclusion that Huxley wrote the book the way that he did as a warning to society at the time - he created the ultimate dystopic world for his audience, in order to show them what could happen to the world if it continued on the way that it was.

True. That's a good conclusion. I haven't really decided on a conclusion, but one thing I'm studying about the book is how the pursuit of induviduality leads to loneliness and despair.

To me, that is an interesting idea because it touches on the issue of the ideas of the needs for individuality and acceptance/ perhaps conformity to an accepted norm, which can clash. I'm following this through for my research project to see how those needs and the results of their pursuit are portrayed in other novels, movies, etc. It seems to me that Brave New World presents both individuality and conformity as having undesirable outcomes.
It makes me think of Christianity where God accepts us as who we are - loves us despite our faults and it is in Him that we find who we are and where we're absolutely loved (acceptance).

That's just my quick thoughts on the matter -- I haven't given a lot of time to the ideas, and am not presenting it as absolutely correct. I'd appreciate people's thoughts on the matter - and, if you know any books (classical/ historical/ well known ones in particular) where there is individual vs. the system, it would be awesome if you could tell me the titles and authors so I can include them in the study. I've got two movies so far: the Truman Show and Gattica, as well as the book 1984, but any others would be awesome. .

Personally, I think the guy was just upset that he got a parking ticket that he wrote a book bashing society and all forms of technology!

edit:
btw, Truman Show and Gattaca are good movies! If you need help thinking up stuff about em, let us know and we'll try to help you

Edit x2:
Another great movie about individual vs system is Equilibrium. It came out the same time as the matrix, but was overlooked. Pity, cause it rocks! it has sean bean and some other guy, Mr I-cant-remember-his-name (he is Laurie in Little Women, and the new Batman).
Anyway, its about a society where all emotion is suppressed through drugs (like BNW, except NO emotions exist... not even happiness and love). Anyway, its about how "sense offenders" (those who refuse to take the drugs) try to fight against the system. Very violent (mostly with guns, but the final battle... well... just hide your eyes while he is fighting the African-American) but I cant remember if there is any language. I heartily enjoyed the film, and would recommend it to anyone not really put off by gun-violence and above 15. It makes you think about emotions and how we need them.

Edit x3:
I remember one naughty word after he takes the sense test... be prepared to mute it.

Edit x4

THIS IS MY 1000 POST!!! YAAAAAAAAAY!! PARRRRTY!!!!

I never did enjoy Brave New World but the movie Equilibrium does share similarities with Metropolis, Fahrenheit 451, 1984, Brave New World, Gattaca and even a little Matrix. I thought it was very well done, especially since it was low budget. The original gun battles using gun kata (martial arts with guns) was very cool and interesting, although reasonably violent at times. There is very little language (1 F word, 2 sh..., and three d@mn) words and mild drug references (the emotion supressors). 15 years and over for me. Just saw it today. Intelligent script too. Highly recommended.

Talame, the actor your thinking of is Christian Bale. He has a great first name don't you think? (lol)