Guide to Writing Fight Scenes

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Guide to Writing Fight Scenes

Postby uc pseudonym » Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:27 pm

Introduction

I've put together this guide for two reasons. One, because I'd like to share what writing skills I do have. Two, because a good
friend asked me to. It'd be a shame to just give it to him, so I'm therefore also posting it here. All writing examples within this
document are excerpts from stories I have written, and some of them from a story I've not yet released (Legend of Link). Don't
try to understand the characters or motivations in these segments, just look at how the fighting is done.

So now, in fewer words, what is this? A guide to a lot of what I know about writing fight scenes. If you never intend to write
any, or aren't at all curious, this may not be something you need to read. However, as true_noir_chloe has dually noted, many
of the writers on this forum are fond of writing pieces that would be considered shonen in the manga world. And where there is
shonen, there is fighting.

This isn't going to make you an excellent writer. I'm simply not equipped for doing such a deed. Much of writing is a personal
aspect that cannot be taught, it must be acquired for yourself. Hopefully, however, this document will help.

An overview: I'll first speak in general, then discuss types of fight scenes (Duel, Brawl, Knight and Battle), then the different
goals of fight scenes (Notary, Discovery, Routine, Emotional and Brutal) and lastly the assorted fight scene styles (Play by Play,
Distanced, Stylized and Absent). By the by, after the amount of work I put into this, someone had better find it helpful (read as:
tell me if you read it).

General

There are a few things that must be gotten out of the way first, before I delve deeper into the heart of the issue. They are
somewhat random, but should all be read.

Please, if the battle is not properly paragraphed your readers will just get bored and skim over it. Learn to find the key with the
black letters "Enter" on it. Not so difficult, hm? Of course, it actually is more difficult than that. The question is when to
paragraph. Generally, I try to begin a new paragraph when a new phase of the battle begins. Say, after a character is thrown
from the combat briefly, or just before someone pulls a new weapon. Look at the examples throughout this document to see
the ways I have done this.

Remember your character's limits. If they start being able to do anything, the story quickly loses its appeal. Of course, your
characters may have super powers that put their limits quite high, but always keep in mind the nature of their powers, and how
they are used. For example (Example A):

They clashed at the center of the destroyed row, Kariab only barely parrying the blows coming from Sephros's blades. Getting
a bit of breathing room, he hurled his trident forward at Sephros's head. Hooking his foot on the leg of a table, Sephros jerked
hard, sending the table into the air just as the trident neared him. The three tines buried themselves in the thick wood. A second
later, Kariab was shocked as Sephros melted through the table, striking him with a deadly blow.

Here our characters are demons and angels. They are by their very nature immune to the ordinary laws of physics. However,
they in general obey ordinary laws of physics (eg why they can walk on the ground), but they can choose to ignore these.
Sephros uses this to his advantage by first blocking a blow not intended to phase through physical matter with physical matter,
then breaking this same law himself in the next instant.

Feel free to break some rules of writing (no one will care if you start a sentence with a preposition if you do so well), but keep
your pronouns in check. Do not, I repeat, do not combine two sentence fragments about different individuals with a comma. If
two males are fighting, whenever you use the word "he" you are being ambiguous. Theoretically, this always refers to the last
character mentioned, but in more complex battle scenes that isn't always clear. Just keep this in mind, and reread your battle
scenes so you're sure everything makes sense.

Flying kicks are bad. Don't use them as an effective technique.

-

There's plenty more. I'll post the next three sections the next three subsequent days, if someone cares enough to respond.
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Postby Icarus » Thu Dec 25, 2003 2:02 pm

Does "hello" count as a response? ;)

Thank you for posting this. If I ever write a fight scene, I will refer back to it. Until then, please post the rest.
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Postby Lochaber Axe » Thu Dec 25, 2003 2:05 pm

Nice guide, and it is quite hard to keep pronouns in check sometimes. Anyways, are you going to describe how to do a proper gun-fight? There is a big difference in the actions of this kind of fighting and hand-to-hand since the objective is not to get as close as possible, but to get as accurate without being shot. Just wondering.

EDIT: Ah I see it now, "Duel". What about on a more wide-spread battle in which there are multiple characters involved? Actually, that is the hardest kind of fighting. The kind where there isn't just two but maybe groups or even armies (0_o) in battle. What is your take on that?
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Postby MillyFan » Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:03 pm

Totally off topic, Lochaber, but is that thing in your banner from the Trigun manga? :)
Image

Thanks to doukeshi03 from otakuboards for the banner!

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . :bootout:

Hey, whatever happened to "thou shalt not steal" anyway?

Guess which bishounen is my avatar.
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Postby uc pseudonym » Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:11 pm

That was some fast responding. I'm pleased.

Actually, "Duel" refers to a battle between two different individuals. Gun-fighting gets its own section, as it's really somewhat of a different genre. After you see it, feel free to ask any other questions I don't cover.

Battles involving multiple individuals will be covered tomorrow, in the subsections "Brawl" and "Battle." I agree, they're much more difficult. Actually, I believe I say something to that effect in the section...
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Postby Kesshin » Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:27 pm

Thanks for posting this, Pseudonym. I don't put much fighting in my stories, but it does occasionally happen. This will definitely come in handy for those times. Please post more.
"Consider the lilies of the field. They neither sew nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed as one of these. If God so clothes the grass, which is in the field one day and cast into the oven the next, how much more will he clothe you, o ye of little faith?
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Postby Lochaber Axe » Thu Dec 25, 2003 7:52 pm

Where did you see Alphonse in Trigun? This is one of the main characters of Full Metal Alchemists, which isn't licensed but I hope it will be. Anyway the two main characters are Edward Elric and Alphonse Elric, whom are brothers. Alphonse is my favorite of the two since he is the more level-headed brother and he has that suit of armor :thumb: . I have the first volume through scanlations and if you want me to make a review for you, just ask.

Here is Example A (This is the cover of the volume):

Image

Here is Example B (this is where I got my banner image):

Image

Once they bring FMA over here (hopefully), though I am wiping all the volume from my computer. There would be no point in it, and to me unfair when I could get the official manga.
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Postby MillyFan » Thu Dec 25, 2003 7:54 pm

OK, sorry. I haven't read the Trigun manga yet and thought it was manga Monev. Silly me! :red: :sweat:
Image

Thanks to doukeshi03 from otakuboards for the banner!

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . :bootout:

Hey, whatever happened to "thou shalt not steal" anyway?

Guess which bishounen is my avatar.
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Postby Michael » Thu Dec 25, 2003 8:02 pm

It looks good. Are you going to put anything in there on fighting from a first person perspective (IE, from one characters point-of-view only)?
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Postby Lochaber Axe » Thu Dec 25, 2003 8:03 pm

MillyFan wrote:OK, sorry. I haven't read the Trigun manga yet and thought it was manga Monev. Silly me! :red: :sweat:


No big, but if you have any questions or want that review just pm me. Oh and if you what a review for the Trigun volume, I will be happy to. Now let's allow UC to continue.

You may proceed.

EDIT: First person perspective? I don't believe I have seen that before. Can you give an example?
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Postby Haibane Shadsie » Thu Dec 25, 2003 9:06 pm

Good guide.

I *hope* I do fight scenes well, myself. I do tend to write a lot of them... fantasy literature...yeah.

I'm not a fighter, myself... so I go by what I read and what I see, and I just try to keep in mind what is good for writing in general. I also try to think about the fear and the adrenaline that comes to a person in high-stress situations, as in a battle. I think I've been following your rules for a while before you posted this... *I think*. Anyway, I *hope* I've done well with the fight scenes I've written in the various things I've written with them.
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Postby Michael » Fri Dec 26, 2003 8:08 am

<First person perspective? I don't believe I have seen that before. Can you give an example?>

Sure. I'll use the last fight of Cowboy Bebop.

Spike vs. Vicious (3rd person perspective)
'Spike aimed the Jericho but blood got in his eyes and threw his shot off.
He rushed Vicious.
Vicious pulled a throwing knife and threw it, stabbing Spike in the shoulder. Spike didn't slow down.
Spike reached him, but Vicious dodged to Spike's right and hit him in the back as he was going past. This created a distance between the two.
Spike whipped around bringing the Jericho up, but Vicious had closed the space and slashed, Spike took it in the trigger-guard.'

Same fight, 1st person. (Spike's POV)
'I brought the Jericho up, but blood got in my eye and threw my shot off.
Dangit! I was waisting rounds, have to get closer.
I rushed him.
When I was about ten feet away he pulled a knife. I couldn't tell what it was and didn't have time to dodge.
He threw it.
It hit my right shoulder and would have hurt a lot more if I hadn't had a gallon of adrenaline running around my body.
He'd thrown the knife to slow me down so as to get his sword out. If you fight a guy with a sword make sure you're faster, closer and more determined than the other guy.
I went passed him and he hit me in the small of the back with something. I went forward trying to regain my balance.
I did, then I whipped my head around.
He was 20 ft away with his sword still sheethed and realized what I had: I could shoot him and he couldn't do thing about it.
My head was around but my Jericho was still on the way.
He rushed me.
My Jericho had barely gotten into aim before he swung.
He pulled his sword and tried to use that momentem, but was to close to utilize it fully.
I caught the swing in the trigger-gaurd.
We both had lucked out.'

I could do a better job when I'm more awake.
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Postby uc pseudonym » Fri Dec 26, 2003 12:30 pm

This is going to be long (the next section that is), so I'll post two times to make it fit. Once for responding to parts of this thread, once for the next section.

Haibane Shadsie, I'm sure you do a good job of writing fight scenes. I would call what you posted in Cephas's thread a decent job (though your focus wasn't really so much on hard-core combat as on some other interesting things). Please keep reading, though.

I didn't have anything prewritten about first person versus third person. The differences are really more about general writing, not about fighting. However...

Impromptu Section on First Person Fight Scenes

While I generally support third person for fight scenes, as I feel it provides the author with greater ability to play with things, it's not always possible. Sometimes it can work better, and sometimes stories are simply entirely in first person. As such, plenty of things can be done.

The first and foremost thing to keep in mind is that you are no longer omniscient, you know only what a certain character is aware of. The opponent's specific moves are not availible to you, unless they are familiar to the character or this character is actively watching. This can create a bit more intensity, especially in Naruto-esque battles were there are dopplegangers and all sorts of tricks going on.

One major benefit of first person is that you can delve further into a given individual's thoughts and feelings, as well as motivations for specific actions. This can also be performed in third person, but I'll cover that later. In this mode, it's more like they're talking to the reader, so you can include extra comments. I'd submit as Example Z the bit that Michael wrote in his last post.

Generally, however, I use third person and focus nearly entirely on one individual, freeing me to express their feelings and planning without losing my basic omniscient view. But this is just a personal preference.

Now for the long post.
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Postby uc pseudonym » Fri Dec 26, 2003 12:36 pm

Types

Overview

Different manners of fights require different types of fighting in real life, and definitely require different styles of writing. One
simply cannot write a duel between swordsmen the same as an all-out barfight. I've tried to pin these down into four different
types of fighting.

Duel

A duel is a one on one match between two different competitors of about equal size. For example, any two humans slugging
away at each other fits this type. Here the author is able to use a unique variety of interesting attacks, as the combat is very
focused between two individuals. These individuals may have any variety of weapons or abilities, and while you should take
these into consideration, they are irrelevant to the type of fight involved.

Brawl

This is a very different type of fighting, in which the protagonist is battling many opponents at once. In literature, it is one of the
most difficult types to do effectively. While you could describe each and every movement performed by the hero, most of the
time it just wouldn't be cool. I submit as an example the battle between Neo and Agents Smith in Matrix: Reloaded. On screen
it may be a awesome (albeit long) battle, but to describe each and every action could become tiring. There are two further
subtypes within Brawl, however: Chaotic and Limited.

In a Chaotic Brawl, there an unnumbered set of opponents. You only need to keep track of who is currently fighting the
protagonist. Generally the best strategy is to deal with it like several Duels going on at once. At each given second, the
protagonist must generally fend off attacks from two or three opponents, and perhaps get in a shot of his/her/its own. This isn't
the greatest Chaotic Brawl ever, but it will do for my purposes (Example B):

Surrounded by demons, Daran found it was all he could do to defend himself. Dodging multiple chain knives hurled in his
direction, he whirled, kicking away a cudgel and smashing one demon back. He ducked a blade, only to have it turn at the last
second, the flat of it smacking him back.

Daran managed to bring his sword to bear just in time to block the demon's attack. This one was bigger and obviously stronger
than the others. The next attack took all his strength to parry. Just before the demon could strike a third time, he was tackled
off by a flying form from the side. Given a second's breathing room, Daran got to his feet and returned to beating on the other
minor demons.


In a Limited Brawl, one character is battling a set number of others. Generally these others are especially powerful flunkies, or
perhaps important characters with things such as names. This is a much more difficult manner of fighting. To make a reasonable
fight, you must consider what each and every character is doing at any given moment. If there are too many to consider at once,
have many of them get knocked away from the fight briefly. While they are knocked away, the others can fight the protagonist,
who then knocks them away just in time to fight the first group as they get back up again. Of course, to make it that obvious
would be bad, but you understand the principle. Now, allow me to introduce you to the rather lengthy Example C:

Sliding back into the darkness, Baal vanished, his eyes glowing a second longer and then melting away. Immediately, the four
demons charged at Sephros. Leaping over the attack of one, he kicked the two on his right and left away from him. The demon
behind him struck at a horizontal slice for his head, but Sephros ducked the swing. As he landed, he buried an elbow into the
demon's stomach, sending him flying back.

Tightening a fist, Sephros waited for them to attack again. Perhaps he could not fight Baal, but the least he could do was finish
these four. The two he had kicked came back at him first, and Sephros took the time to notice that both were using nun-chaku.
Good; he could deal with those easily. As for the others, he was not as certain.

Ducking as they came at him, Sephros tripped up the first and deflected the weapon of the second. As his weapon recoiled
from the shock, Sephros sliced through the chain with his other blade. While the demon gaped, staring at the remaining half of
his weapon, Sephros finished him off.

Pain smashed through his skull as the other nun-chaku was brought down on his head from behind. They were faster than he
had anticipated. Believing he was stunned, the other demon brought the weapon down at him again. He made a critical error in
how much it would take to stop his opponent.

Putting up a hand behind him, Sephros blocked the chain, using the weapon's momentum to force it to wrap itself around his
arm. As the demon gaped, Sephros pulled him forward and finished him off with the other hand.

More out of expecting something than sensing an attack, Sephros put up an energy shield, just in time to deflect the wave of
green flame the remaining two demons launched in his direction. It faded a second later, Sephros dropped his shield and
quickly took stock of them, unwinding the nun-chaku and dropping it to the ground. One appeared to be unarmed, and the
other held a quarterstaff at ready.

The next instant, the supposedly unarmed demon hurled dozens of shuriken that had been cleverly hidden in his hands. Far
more than Sephros had anticipated. Apparently this group was actually quite powerful, not a simple distraction. Slicing with his
blades, Sephros cut the incoming shuriken apart. Whirling the next instant, he smashed a foot into the face of the demon who
had attempted to surprise attack him. He and the quarterstaff went flying.

Already the other demon was hurling a massive star shaped blade in his direction...


I'll cut it short there, as I think you get the point. All the characters are constantly doing something, even if they are just
mentioned when they again interfere with our protagonist. On to another style.

-

It still doesn't fit! Blast.
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Postby uc pseudonym » Fri Dec 26, 2003 12:37 pm

Feh, I have to post again. I'd prefer to post multiple times in a row and let you actually read the section as one.

-


Knight

These conflicts are between our protagonist (presumably basically human) and a monster of some sort that is far larger than
him/her/it. This is very similar to Duel, yet has a distinctively different flavor. Obviously, the greatest difficulty our protagonist
must overcome the opponent's larger size and reach. I'm going to shut up about this one and let Example D do the talking:

The creature let out a roar, and it felt like a gust of wind struck Link full in the face. Raising his arms, Link braced himself
against the deafening roar. Glancing up, Link saw the creature's relatively small eyes focus down on him, and he realized that
this was going to be the toughest fight of his life. Either that, or his last.

It dove for him a second later, massive head rushing down to swallow him whole. Jumping back and evading the attack, Link
struck the creature on the nose with his sword as hard as he could. The blade bounced off.

Now seriously worried, Link quickly backpedaled away from the creature. He could probably break through its skin with his
energy attack, but he could only do that so often. It's hide was extremely tough, and felt like hitting that stone creature again.

Immediately after Link hit the ground he ducked, just barely avoiding a wave of flame that shot over his head. The circular blast
of flame was taller than Link was high, and he didn't want to think about how much it would hurt to get hit by it. Seeing that he
had avoided the attack, the gigantic Dodongo rushed forward, attempting to trample him with giant feet. Rolling, Link managed
to get beneath it, then ran under the monster, slashing its underbelly as he went. It didn't break the creature's hide, but this time
looked like it at least caused a bit of pain.

Coming out behind the monster, Link narrowly dodged to the side as its massive tail slammed down, nearly striking him. It
struck again blindly, and Link pressed himself against the wall to avoid the attack. Gathering energy in his blade, Link thrust as
hard as he could, sinking it into the beast's tail, then instantly pulling it out.

Roaring in anger the Dodongo twisted violently, but couldn't reach Link, as the young boy was behind him. However, the
monster was far from defeated. Suddenly it pulled forward, wrapping its legs and tail in, then tucking its head down. Now in a
gigantic ball, the monster was propelled forward, rolling around the room. Scraping against the stone wall, it moved around the
circle.

In shock from the maneuver, Link realized that if it continued circling around it would reach him again. It was wide enough that
it filled pretty much the entire path, and the lava was obviously not an option. His time was running out, as the creature was
nearly at him. Putting as much force as he could into a jump, Link leapt over it as it rumbled past, then energized his blade and
sliced behind him.

Spinning at the speed it was, the creature was cut multiple places by the blade. It uncoiled and faced him while Link landed on
the ground lightly. He realized the creature was mostly fine and facing him the next instant, and promptly bolted away. Sensing it
took a deep breath, Link leapt back again, this time over the burst of flame issuing from its mouth. Landing on the wall, Link
twisted, turning to slash at the beast.


Now the monster doesn't have to be as tough as the King Dodongo Link unfortunately has to run into. But you understand how
much more challenging it is to fight something a lot bigger than you. Enough of this.

Battle

This format features a massive army battling another massive army. I'll speak less about this, as it is both easier to write and
there is less that can be told. You have two basic options: you can take on the role of a specific person or group and narrate
the battle through their eyes, or you can take the position of a commander who sees the entire battle.

If you take the role of a specific group, you basically reduce the battle to a big Brawl, so I won't cover that here. The
commander role is much more difficult, but often more useful for stories that have an epic scope. This format involves little
actual combat, and features more troop movement and overall strategies. Instead of various attacks and defenses making up
the fight scene, you have other elements, such as: troop movements, grand strategies (catapults against walls, rolling stones
down a hill, etc), and the arrival of new troops.

Note that this format is far less personal, and I would personally suggest using it only later in a story when everyone's characters
are fully intact, or if you are trying to characterize the person who is commanding.

Note on Projectiles

Gun battles are almost a different genre, but most fight scenes can feature arrows, ki blasts, shuriken, etc. Projectiles of the
latter three types can be easily merged into other fight scene types. However, gun battles or fights in which both characters use
primarily ranged attacks must be handled differently.

For one, unless your characters are fast enough to dodge bullets, you need obstacles. An open area makes for a poor fight, as
there is little you can do to be original, yet not have one character shoot the other. One can only duck, roll and flip so much.
Having the fight in an area with pillars, a bridge, or other such things can make the fight far more interesting.

Remember: if it is difficult for the villains to hit your hero, it has to be just as difficult for your heros to hit your villains. It gets
annoying when the bad guys manage to miss several hundred times using automatic weaponry, while the heros kill off another
guy with every shot from their modified pea shooter.

Just in case this isn't clear, Example E:

"There is no reason for us not to take the bounty ourselves," the program who had been invisible said in a chill voice. "You
always were an uppity b******, Seraph. Goodbye."

Instantly he was invisible again, he leveled his gun even as the other four pulled theirs. Weaving with inhuman speed, Seraph
dodged their bullets, getting behind a large stone pillar in the room. His back to the pillar, Seraph pulled both of his guns as
well. It was quite fortunate that the Merovingian had such a fondness for stone pillars.

Coming from behind his cover, Seraph immediately somersaulted toward the next, firing with one hand. He caught a quick
glimpse of the three vamparic programs, all of which hid themselves behind other pillars. The other two were nowhere to be
found, a fact that worried him far more.

Briefly leaning around the pillar, Seraph continued to fire, keeping down the vampires. Quickly Seraph realized that there was
only one vampire behind the pillars. Immediately suspicious, he took counter-measures. Just as the two vampires appeared on
opposite sides of him, Seraph ran up the wall, guns out in either direction, firing toward each vampire. One slumped to the
ground, the other ducked behind a pillar.

Flipping to his feet as he came off the wall, Seraph only barely dodged several bullets that seemed to come from nowhere. A
glint of sunlight caught off the barrel of the gun held by the invisible program. Firing in that general direction, Seraph fled from
the room, whirling and slamming the door behind him.


Final Notes

I've been over different types of battles, but that hardly is enough to make a good fight scene. In the next segment I'll explore
something far more important: motivations. Even good fight scenes without reason serve little purpose.
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Postby btboy500 » Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:53 pm

Bravo to a very good guide. I've started reading your story "The Fall" which is excellent as are your fight scenes. I feel that fight scenes can very easily become redundantly boring but yours kept me interested and I always found myself visualizing everything as it happened. Keep up the good work!:thumb:. Also, I look forward to your "Legend of Link" story!:drool:
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Postby Haibane Shadsie » Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:57 pm

A thought on battles:

In the fifth chapter of my novel, there is a big battle. However, I do not focus on the battle itself, but instead upon my main character - her movements and her experience of the battle - basically what she sees going on around her. Is this a good way to go with battles? It seems to make the most sense this way for my novel... not writing so much the battle itself as my main character's perspective of it.
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Postby uc pseudonym » Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:10 pm

Yes, Haibane Shadsie, I would support the method you used in the novel. And I did mention such a method (focusing on a specific individual), though it is the same as other fight scene types, which is why it recieved no extrapolation. If you're writing how I think you're writing, however, I'd support this as the best way.

To reiterate something else: for first battles for a character, I would definitely support only showing their personal thoughts and feelings. If there are multiple battles, you might want to switch to an overall view later on, but definitely not in the first one.

About Legend of Link: It's going to be long. Very long; perhaps my longest work ever. I don't release stories until I've finished them (as I want to edit the story as a whole, check for plot holes, etc), so it will be a long time until it's out. It isn't even a hundred pages yet (Link just barely got the Goron's Ruby). But it will be very good: I intend it to be my final and greatest work of fanfiction (The Fall will continue).
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Postby inkhana » Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:50 pm

>But it will be very good: I intend it to be my final and greatest work of fanfiction
Cool! Can't wait to get to read it...:)


BOOSTER: Hey, No.1! Where's my cake?!
SNIFIT 1: Booster, Sir! There's a 70% chance the object you're standing on is a cake.
BOOSTER: What? THIS thing's a cake?

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(in response to an interview question "Do you have a pet peeve having to do with this biz?")
People who write below their abilities in order to crank out tons of books and make a buck. Especially Christian authors who do that. Outsiders judge us for it, and make fun of us for it, and it makes Jesus look bad. We of all artists on earth should be the most concerned with doing our best possible work at all times. We of all people should write with all our hearts, as if writing for the Lord and not for men.
- Athol Dickson


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Postby uc pseudonym » Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:29 pm

Before that, I have a Metroid fanfiction I need to get done. Barely have 40 pages, but it isn't nearly as long as Legend of Link will be. Speaking of which, I should send you the unedited version of Stanza 2. I'm already working on 4...

But we stray off topic. No more of this here.
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Postby Retten » Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:45 pm

Ver nice guide uc pseudonym! If I ever get around to writing my story out on paper I will definetly refer back to this guide of yours. Its awsome keep it up! CAA is just full of talented people :)
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Postby MillyFan » Fri Dec 26, 2003 7:18 pm

[quote="uc pseudonym"]

About Legend of Link: It's going to be long. Very long]


Your. . .your final fanfiction? :waah!: A Blessed Silence was great work, and I *so* wish you'd write another Trigun fic (or Cowboy Bebop, or Big O, or Gundam Wing. . .). Sure, if you wrote another Trigun fic, you couldn't do very well with a sequel or whatnot in the same universe as A Blessed Silence, but you could do a different AU from that, or even canon continuation.

You write alternative pairings VERY well, your characterization is dead-on even when your characters are intentionally out of character (I hope mine was as good when I was writing the intentionally OOC Vash in Dark Mirror), and to see you never write fanfic again would be. . .:waah!:
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First, Ban all the Trolls. . . :bootout:

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Postby Michael » Fri Dec 26, 2003 7:25 pm

Good job UC, I can't wait for the Motevations.
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Postby true_noir_chloe » Fri Dec 26, 2003 7:49 pm

I read through this whole thread. Shwoo! I'd give it a *thumbs way up* ^_^ You are the best at writing fight scenes here, UC. I also think it's important to watch or take part in whatever type of fighting your character is doing. Do you watch tapes of different fighting styles? Have you watched the way a gun spits out a bullet, the way the gun feels in your hand when it kicks back, at a shooting range, or the heaviness of a sword and how the hilt feels when your hand is wrapped around it? Do you think that type of research is necessary? I've always felt I had to see or feel before I wrote, and then it seems more real. What's your opinion?

I also wanted to ask you UC, when you are designing your fight scene, do you act it out to watch how a fist or kick would be thrust and such, possibly how it would feel and then write? And, do you ever try to do quick sketches and diagrams of placement of characters? Especially when you're doing the "randori" effect in the multiple attacker fight scenes? I've found that to be helpful when I've written in the past.

I'm glad you're placing this here. I think it's very helpful.

[size=84][color=seagreen]YOU SEE


You see into the deepest part of me ---

beyond the fog I hide behind.

You cast your light upon the shadows

that stretch like cobwebs in my mind.

You ease the pain when I am hurting,

and morbid visions from my past

pierce into the realm of Reason

as though I danced on blades of glass.

You grant me strength when I have fallen

and, once again, I've lost my way.

You take my hand in Yours and lead me

into the promise of a brand new day.

You bring order to all my chaos,

yet set my well-laid plans awry.

You place me on a firm foundation ---

then give me wings so I can fly.

You sand away my roughened edges

and polish all the dullest parts

until I stand before Your presence...

a newly-sculpted work of art.

You see into the heart within me,

right through my motives and selfish will.

And yet, in spite of all You see

You say You love me even still.


~by D.M.~

[/color][/size]
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Postby Michael » Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:40 pm

Oh, I wanted to add something, realistic firearm fight scenes are generally pretty short. Something like the Matrix is of course, unrealistic.
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Postby uc pseudonym » Sat Dec 27, 2003 12:09 pm

Again... two posts. One for responses, one for the section.

Millyfan: Yes, I'm thinking of this as my final fanfiction. But it's long enough I could easily write three or four other fanfiction meanwhile. For example, I'll be finishing a Metroid fanfiction, and I have Teen Titans and Rockman Zero fanfictions in limbo as well. Also, I might have a sequel to A Blessed Silence about which I will say only one thing: Gung-ho Guns. Of course I couldn't let it stay that simple. (About A Blessed Silence... I don't think I have a shot at winning for one reason: I'm up against, among other things, a humor piece. Humor pieces will always win anything)

About AU stories (which I am ever so fond of), the only other one I've written that's any good is a Dragonball Z one I wrote some time ago (it is not, I repeat, is not much like the DBZ anime. It's generally pretty thoughtful, if filled with violence. But in this case the violence [even that which feels pointless- it's supposed to] all has a purpose). If anyone's interested, go ahead and ask...

true_noir_chloe: I don't know, I guess it could be helpful. I don't really have a disadvantage there, I'm pretty good at understanding most fighting styles (but I'm also inclined to work with physical laws other than our own. That makes things easier, because I make the rules). Being pacifist, I don't often find myself with weapons of any sort.

But any fight involving flying is somewhat difficult to understand for yourself. Same with anything involving multiple shuriken (though I have strange talent for throwing them...), or energy based weapons. I would say I don't think such research is necessary, but it certainly could help.

I don't personally act it out, but I generally invision the entire thing in my mind. One thing, if nothing else, I try to do is to always keep in mind what the character would be capable of from any given position. Personally, I don't think I've ever diagrammed character positions, but that's just because I can do it in my head. To anyone else: if you find figuring it out in your head confusing, do diagram. It can help.

Michael: Yup. If you're aiming for realistic, they'll be quick. Most of the time I find my characters have supernatural powers...
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Postby uc pseudonym » Sat Dec 27, 2003 12:12 pm

Motives

Overview

Each fight scene in your story should be there for a reason, otherwise they will quickly bog down the plot. Remember: fight
scenes are plot elements, not the driving force of the story. If they serve no purpose, they should not exist. In this segment, I will
cover these various reasons, as I have divided them.

Notary

These fights exist only to notify the character involved (and thus the reader) of some fact. It could be that they are now in a new
area (and hence there are new monsters), to inform them this area is dangerous or that there are guards present. In any case,
these fights should be brief and to the point, not really much of a challenge for the victors.

Discovery

In Discovery motivated fights, the focus of the scene is not actually on the fight, but on character in the fight. Often this takes on
the form of an individual discovering something about themselves, or learning their true feelings. Include details about the fight,
but they should take a back seat to the character development that is going on.

This (Example F) is quite a poor example of a Discovery fight. It really wasn't meant to be such, but does have elements of it
strongly. Our protagonist, Link, is struggling to defeat two Lizafloes, and in this portion of the battle, he finally comes to a
realization of his power. For a long time in the story he's been using supernatural power in times of dire need, but wasn't really
consciously aware of it. Now he understands what it is, and accepts it. There are probably better examples (I could have altered this heavily to make it work better, but decided against it), but never the less:

Then the other was slashing at him with its huge blade, and Link was hard pressed to keep it back. He was just barely
comparable to the thing's ability. They continued to battle, and from the corner of his eye Link noticed that the other lizard
creature wasn't attacking and was watching them closely. Apparently they thought he was easy prey.

This one was taking it easy on him too, Link realized. It was attacking almost lazily, as if sure it would eventually kill him. He
would have to take advantage of that. As the creature took a broad horizontal swipe, Link utilized all of his speed. Ducking
beneath the blade, he flowed forward with unnatural velocity, getting close to the creature and burying his blade in its stomach.

Letting out a roar of pain, the creature stumbled backward, nearly wrenching the sword from Link's hands. It staggered
backward, then fell over the edge of the crack, plummeting to the lava below. Use of his special speed made every fiber in
Link's body ache, but he'd managed to kill one of them. Now he didn't have to worry about being double teamed.

With a shriek the other thing charged, and Link realized that it was deathly serious. After seeing that he had killed its comrade,
the lizard monster knew he was a real threat. This would be a difficult fight. Ducking and raising his blade Link managed to
knock the creature's original blow aside. They traded blows for some time, then the creature leapt high into the air above him.

As it came down it swung with animal ferocity, and Link realized too late that he couldn't hope to dodge the attack. Whipping
his blade up over his head, Link channeled all the energy he could muster into his body. The blade struck his with incredible
force, but surprisingly Link and his sword held. His body didn't move, though it was pressed into the rock below just slightly.

Ignoring the ache in his limbs from the use of such power, Link darted forward, slashing with his blade. Aware of his speed, the
creature deflected the attack, then swung in with a sideways blow. Utilizing his new speed, Link leapt back, evading the attack.
Landing on the side of the wall, Link jumped off it as well, delivering another slash. The monster managed to raise its weapon in
time to deflect his attack, but Link spun while in the air, smashing a foot into the creature's head.

As the monster stumbled back, Link moved forward, using all of his speed and strength in a mad series of slashes. For a few
instants the monster was able to keep up, but then one blow came too late, and Link sunk his blade into its flank. Link
continued attacking, destroying the creature utterly.

Blood from the creature's body soaked the ground as it crashed to the floor. Seconds later, the blade fell from Link's hands and
he collapsed as well. He had no wounds, but he hurt so badly. Every part of his body ached with a profound pain that was
more than normal exertion. His spirit felt drained, and he didn't want to ever move again. While it had been necessary to use a
lot of power to defeat the lizard monsters, it had completely worn him out.


Routine

Battles that just plain have to happen. It's unreasonable to think that the evil mastermind would leave the self destruct button for
his secret laboratory unguarded. Therefore, you must have a fight with the guard, in whatever form it is. This fight is really
unavoidable.

In general, these fights should be relatively short and not played up to a very high degree. Of course, a better option is to have
our rhetorical guard also fulfil another of the battle motives. He could be, say, the protagonists brother/father/uncle/roommate.
These fights can also serve many other purposes. If merged well with another purpose, these fights can serve the story
excellently.

Otherwise, play down the fight. Have the protagonist doing a lot of thinking about other things during the fight, or planning
future strategy. This fight exists because it has to, but that doesn't mean it has to be a vicious ten page affair.

Emotional

As with Discovery fight scenes, the Emotional fight scene is really not about the fighting going on. In these scenes, the
protagonist has completely other interests at the moment. Say, for example, he/she/it wants to free some of his/her/its family
members that have been captured by the villain. While the villain may be in the way, the protagonist's main interest is solely in
getting to this other goal.

Also, two people who are otherwise allies who get into a fight can be this manner of fight scene. Their battle represents more
than just physical comment, there are feelings being vented. As such, the focus is on their relationship, not on the battle.

Brutal

The final motive for fight scenes, and, I must admit, the one I use most. Here both parties are irreconcilable, and they're
obviously out to kill each other. (In my defense I use these most because of the nature of my characters: angels and demons
cannot possibly just sit down an have tea. The battle is eternal). It stands to reason there will not be many of this type of battle.

Often these work very well as climactic action scenes. The entire story has been building up to a final conflict between our
protagonist and the person who has, say, taken everything away from them. These fights are often very serious, very grim. Here
is an example of this type, Example G to be exact. This is there more for fun than to show any given point, and a certain one of you will recognize it, and actually understand what's going on:

By the time Vash was interrupted, he was no longer sitting at the desk. His sixth sense had been acting up on him, so Vash had
gotten to his feet. One hand rested on the second gun he had acquired, just in case his personal gun ran out. If there was going
to be trouble, he was ready.

The interruption came in the form of a single shot, the sound of it breaking the silence of the room. It was not aimed at him,
however, as Vash quickly discovered. Turning immediately to the corridor the bullet had come from, Vash drew his gun, and
found himself facing a similarly drawn weapon. At the side of the room, Mr. Rowans was slumped to the ground, blood pouring
beneath him from his wound.

Touching upon him only for an instant, Vash's gaze returned to the figure in the doorway. It was that slippery member of the
Hitmen, appearing at long last. Shile, if Vash remembered his name correctly.

"Interesting." His voice was like silk. "I find Vash the Stampede here, of all places."

"Why did you kill him?" Vash asked. Shile shrugged, as if it hardly mattered. His gun arm did not waver with the motion.

"He would only have gotten in the way. Besides, he is completely unnecessary for my plan to be complete. Though he was a
useful tool, he is only a tool. Foolish spider."

"Spider?" Vash's eyes narrowed, remembering those words from a different mouth, so long ago. "You echo the past."

"Do I? Well, good." Shile smirked slightly. "No more words are necessary. Shall we dance?"

[and here I skip a few other scenes...]

Ducking behind the heavy wooden desk, Vash avoided his opponent's gunfire. The next instant he darted over his shield, firing
back at Shile. He was already under cover as well, and returned fire the next instant.

Vash fired a few shots just to keep Shile down, then reloaded his gun. As soon as Shile stopped a burst of fire, Vash whirled
around. Vaulting atop the table, he leapt into the air, over the table Shile had hidden himself behind as well. He looked up and
tried to fire, but Vash's foot swept his gun away, sending it flying across the ground.


The final section tomorrow.
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Postby btboy500 » Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:17 pm

Thanks a lot UC, now I have more fanfiction to look forward to heh. Once again, good job on your guide and I look forward to the final section.
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Postby Kokhiri Sojourn » Sat Dec 27, 2003 4:26 pm

I just read this entire thread - rockin' awesome stuff, UC. I'm an English major (though I'm not sure what aspect yet - writing, a specific Lit. genre, etc.), and this is quite helpful. I've always wanted to write a piece. Maybe someday. I have 19 hrs. next semester... hmmm... anyway, keep it up, and look forward to tomorrow's post.
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Postby uc pseudonym » Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:31 am

My general thanks to all reviewing positively. Here's the last of it.

-

Styles

Overview

This is my personal favorite aspect of fighting, in that there are many different ways a battle can be done. Choosing what way or
combination of ways the battle will take place is a very important part of determining how effective the fight scene will be. Only
with this as well does the fight scene become complete, and only with this section is my guide to fighting finished.

I have divided different styles into three different areas, with a minor fourth one that requires very little of my attention. As
always, I will cover each of these, speaking about good ways to write in that style and its strengths and weaknesses.

However, all of these styles have their own weaknesses. It is good to know when to use them. In most cases, I would suggest
blending several different types, particularly Play by Play and Distanced.

Play by Play

This is the most common style for most Duels and Brawls, and also my personal favorite. Here the fight choreography can
really shine, and the author's creativity can be shown. In this style, each action is described, and the entire fight lined out. If you
want an in-depth fight that is more than just a shallow beating, this is the way to go.

While I would consider this the default style, a word of caution is necessary: if there is nothing but this style it will get old. Break
this up with Distanced (to be discussed in the next section) or page breaks (skip to another scene that's also happening, then
come back later on in the fight).

Examples A, C and D are the best samples of this style, though all my writing contains some of it, and all three of these
examples also contain other styles.

Distanced

In this format, the narration takes a step away from the combat, merely telling us what is going on, not showing us. For example
(a minor one), you could say: "Bob continued to trounce Bill soundly." This is boring, but also very brief, if that's what you're
aiming for.

Personally I believe the most effective use of this is for "blurring over" sections of a detailed fight. Consider the end of Example
F, here recreated for ease of reading and specificity:

As the monster stumbled back, Link moved forward, using all of his speed and strength in a mad series of slashes. For a few
instants the monster was able to keep up, but then one blow came too late, and Link sunk his blade into its flank. Link
continued attacking, destroying the creature utterly.


Do you see how I avoid basically all of the combat? All we know is that Link and the Lizafloes do a bit of swashbuckling, and
that Link wins. Yet surrounded by Play by Play combat, this section feels completely normal. Also, it allows me to get to the
end of the fight faster while not making it seem as if Link just kills him effortlessly.

Stylized

This can be one of the most effective styles, if not overused. In this format the battle is extremely played up, made to seem
climactic. In a movie, this would feature both sides charging at each other in slow motion or a similar effect. With prose, you
use different techniques to create the same affect. For example, you could describe each character in detail, set the scene as
very dark and gloomy, or go in depth on a certain character's thoughts. One slightly overused technique is to have every person
with interest in the scene watching intently before the two (or more) enemies actually clash.

Another sub-format of this is the flashback fight, one I've become quite fond of (and thus I have to avoid using it too often).
This creates a fight (done however you may like) that is interspersed with flashbacks. These flashbacks rise to a specific point,
just as the action in the battle rises to a similar point.

I don't want to lead you to believe this is the only way a fight can be stylized, however. Other methods include many different
unorthodox techniques that make the battle interesting and different. Many times these include things that are similar to
Distanced, but are interesting or strange in other ways. You could describe the character's vision going red, and then have them
remember only vaguely the battle itself (if, say, they were taken overboard). Often these work very well for Emotionally
motivated fights. Consider Example H (one of my personal favorites):

/Destroy them now!/ Link could not help but obey. The voice was too powerful, too authoritative. His blade struck down,
burying into the ground and into the Deku Scrub. It shrieked in pain as it died. Still not completely in control of his body or his
mind, Link whirled on the fallen Deku Scrubs, destroying them.

Then the force vanished, leaving Link to collapse to the ground. He couldn't believe that he had done that. True, the Great
Deku Tree had forced him, but it had still been his hand. For the first time since the slavers, Link saw his blade tinged in red
blood. Those Deku Scrubs couldn't have been all bad...

Slowly getting to his feet, Link closed his eyes for a moment. He slowly raised his blade before him, resting the cool steel on his
forehead. When his eyes opened, they shone with a bitter determination. After the experience with the Great Deku Tree, with
what he had done to the slavers, to the Deku Scrubs, Link felt soulless. If that was what he had become...

He moved on, though corridors, through rooms, through monsters. Nothing could stand in his way, everything in his path with
instantly cut down by his singing blade. Utilizing all his talents and abilities, Link slaughtered everything that he encountered. The
entire time, he was weeping, tears falling from his eyes. It seemed to go forever, the weeping and the killing.

But nothing stood in his way.


One thing to keep in mind, however: if you use this for every single fight, it ceases to become climactic. The third time around
describing a character people just get bored. Make the fight climactic only if it truly is.

Absent

Last but not necessarily least, sometimes fights are best left absent from the story altogether. You can cut to another part of the
story, to another person, or simply let the character vanish and then return later when the battle is done. There's a great
example of this in episode 14 of Trigun (at least I'm pretty sure).

Now, this can easily become a crutch, and you certainly wouldn't want to skip a cool or important fight, but it is also a
legitimate technique. If there's a Routine fight that has to happen, sometimes it is best to only outline the beginning and end.
Sometimes it is best to end with characters facing off, and then let the suspense build until the victor emerges at a later point.
But don't forget this type, either.

Conclusion

Too often people assume that the fight scene is a simple art, easily done. This is mainly because most of the time they are right.
Properly done, however, the fight scene can be an important and exciting part of a story. Even if your stories aren't primarily
action based, making those few action based scenes strong ones can add much depth to the story.

I've been over quite a bit, haven't I? To be honest, I really don't expect you to use this as a guideline, nor to listen to everything
I've said. In many ways, I merely classified existing things. But these are my thoughts, and perhaps they can be useful to
someone. If anyone finds them so, I haven't wasted my time.
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