Superman: Awesome superhero or Gary Stu?

[rocklobster]

I've heard the argument that Gary Stus or Mary Sues should not be used because they bore the reader and are a sure sign you're dealing with an amateur. However, they do still turn up, even in not-so-amateur settings. (Wesley Crusher, anyone?)
One character who seems to qualift as a Gary Stu is Superman. I was wondering if any of you feel Superman deserves this classification. Why or why not?

[TopazRaven]

Dude, it's Superman. He's awesome. Enough said...though I have always liked Batman and Spiderman better. xD Anyway, even Superman has his flaws and downsides. He's not perfect.

[Midori]

Superman isn't like other superheroes. Although he has his one weakness it generally isn't a big problem; in most situations he's literally invincible. The whole point of Superman is that he's awesome and never loses. So, for lack of a 'both' option, I'm picking 'depends'.

[Psycho Molos]

[quote="Midori (post: 1442140)"]Superman isn't like other superheroes. Although he has his one weakness it generally isn't a big problem]

Actually that ain't true...he has two....kryptonite and magic based powers/abilities.

[Nate]

Magic isn't exactly a weakness. When they say Superman is vulnerable to magic, they mean that it just affects him normally, as opposed to say, Captain Marvel who can protect against magic.

Also if Superman is awesome and never loses what about that whole "Death of Superman" thing? Doomsday had no magical abilities or Kryptonite and still killed Superman. Superman may be super strong but he isn't invincible, he can still be harmed if his opponent is strong enough.

[Midori]

Well I'm speaking more about the traditional appearances of Superman, so yes, it does depend.

[Rusty Claymore]

... this is excluding people who don't have "Gary Stu" in their social circles. Or who don't have anyone in their social circles. XP

[Solid Ronin]

Is Superman Awesome? You tell me CAA.


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[Atria35]

...........Borderline. Sometimes he's an awesome character. Sometimes a Gary Stu.

[the_wolfs_howl]

I'm a little surprised to see I'm the only one who chose that he's definitely a Gary Stu. Now, I'd like to make the point that there are some Gary Stus that can be enjoyable and actually aren't that bad, at least not all the time. (Harry Potter is one, if you ask me.) But that doesn't stop them from being Gary Stus. Superman belongs in this category for me, though I personally don't find him that enjoyable.

[rocklobster]

What makes Harry Potter a Gary Stu? Please elaborate?

[Fish and Chips]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/Ronin_of_Kirai/1291509872404.jpg

This is probably my favorite Superman panel of all time.

[Nate]

Anyone who thinks Superman is a bad hero or a bad character after reading the panel Fish quoted right there should just leave human society for the rest of their lives.

[ShiroiHikari]

I'm a little surprised to see I'm the only one who chose that he's definitely a Gary Stu. Now, I'd like to make the point that there are some Gary Stus that can be enjoyable and actually aren't that bad, at least not all the time. (Harry Potter is one, if you ask me.) But that doesn't stop them from being Gary Stus. Superman belongs in this category for me, though I personally don't find him that enjoyable.

What's your definition of a Gary Stu?

P.S. I like the idea of Superman, just...not so much the execution? I'm not sure how to explain it.

[the_wolfs_howl]

What makes Harry Potter a Gary Stu? Please elaborate?

What's your definition of a Gary Stu?

The bottom line of Gary Stus for me is being goody-goody-two-shoes, especially if a lot of the "good guys" talk about how great he is (and to a lesser extent, if the "bad guys" are obsessed with beating him). That seems to me to be exactly what Superman is. Harry Potter isn't exactly that, at least not all the time, but at the very least I'd say he has Stu-ish qualities (especially in the first book, or when Dumbledore's going on about how great he is). Thankfully, Harry Potter also has character flaws that lessen the annoyance factor (for me); I'm not incredibly knowledgeable about Superman, but nothing that I've seen has demonstrated that he has such flaws. (If he does, I would love to see it.)

[Rusty Claymore]

... I even said it backwards, but there is no inherent meaning to Gary Stu. Obscure and un-inspired terms are very aggrivating, so someone explain before Stu gets 13 grams of diplomacy. ▬_▬

[Nate]

"Gary Stu" just sounds stupid anyway.

[Rusty Claymore]

Gary Stu is a Gary Stu. XD

[Winry]

Maybe Rusty Claymore is a Gary Stu?

[Solid Ronin]

I'm not incredibly knowledgeable about Superman, but nothing that I've seen has demonstrated that he has such flaws. (If he does, I would love to see it.)

This is a very late response but it needs to be made.

You're missing the point.

Superman isn't supposed to have flaws, he isn't supposed to be relatable, he isn't supposed to be a man just trying to make things better. He is the best. He is what you want to be. He is what the world should be.

The only problem with Superman is everyone think he should be Peter Paker, but he's more like Jesus Christ.

[Nate]

I hate Jesus because he's not flawed and imperfect.

[the_wolfs_howl]

Well, maybe I'm the only one like this, but I find fictional characters who are perfect and lacking in any real flaws to be rather boring and irritating. Jesus Christ is not a fictional character; He's real and He's God. So you can't really compare the two, if you ask me.

[Fish and Chips]

Well, maybe I'm the only one like this, but I find fictional characters who are perfect and lacking in any real flaws to be rather boring and irritating.

Odysseus - boring and irritating
King Arthur - boring and irritating
Jack Merridew - exciting and interesting[quote]Jesus Christ is not a fictional character]I'm sorry, but this is probably one of the weakest excuses I have ever heard.

Fiction is the art of lying convincingly. You read a book, you watch a movie, you care about the characters because they're "Real" to you; They aren't literally real, but they are real enough that you forget, briefly, that you are reading words printed on a page, or watching a series of photographs of people playing make believe. You remove yourself from the audience and believe in them, as real people, as if you were watching their lives unfold right there with them. If you have ever gotten emotional over anything in fiction, you have done this.

Good fiction is lying to an audience who knows you're lying, and not only lets you lie but willingly believes the lies you tell.

You don't like perfect, flawless characters because they aren't believable, but you believe in a character who is perfect, flawless. That Jesus is real or God is irrelevant. You have chosen to believe in a man you have never seen and never met, who you only know of because you read it in a book somewhere and thought really hard about it; furthermore, you believe in him to such an extent that you actively live your life around what you think he would like.

"[But] Jesus Christ is not a fictional character; He's real."

Just look at how believable he is to you.

Now we introduce another man. He is a good man; a man who does good deeds and believes in good things; a man who not only lacks any obvious flaws or vices, but lives his life for those around him, striving to set an example. This should all sound very familiar.

Oh, but he's fictional, how boring and irritating. Like anyone like that could actually exist, don't waste my time.

[Nate]

You know who else is boring and dull? Aslan from the Narnia books. I mean he's such a BORING character because he's perfect and flawless!

I only like mature fictional characters for mature readers such as myself. I mean who'd wanna read about a dumb boring perfect lion when I could read about a flawed character like John Freeman who's better than Aslan because of his imperfection.

[Rusty Claymore]

I just prefer heroes that are a little closer to what I could actually be. I could never do the stuff that superman does, so he's not very high on my list.

[Furen]

no because he's invincible to physical problems, he's totally vulnerable to magic and if Kryptonite is around (especially gold) he's done for, and it seems everyone has access to it some how, there's always a way that he can be defeated so I'd say he's not, also look at Doomsday, he almost killed superman, so I'd say he can't qualify a Gary Stu.

But alas, he WAS made for people to look up to and admire so...

[Nate]

Doomsday did kill Superman. He didn't almost do it.

Of course Superman came back to life, but when has a comic book character ever stayed dead?

Besides Uncle Ben.

[Yamamaya]

You know who else is boring and dull? Aslan from the Narnia books. I mean he's such a BORING character because he's perfect and flawless!

I only like mature fictional characters for mature readers such as myself. I mean who'd wanna read about a dumb boring perfect lion when I could read about a flawed character like John Freeman who's better than Aslan because of his imperfection.

Ludicrous, John Freeman is perfect. He lives up to FULL LIFE CONSEQUENCES.

There's nothing wrong about having characters like Aslan and Superman. Perfection can at times make a character seem more mysterious and compelling. However, for these characters to work, they have to transcend humanity. If you had a regular person acting perfect 24/7 in a book, it would seem a bit odd.

The good thing is not all superheroes are lawful good like ole Superman. It's good to have all sides of the spectrum presented.

[Nate]

John Freeman isn't perfect. He got there slow and then Gordon Freeman was zombie goast.

[Fish and Chips]

I just prefer heroes that are a little closer to what I could actually be. I could never do the stuff that superman does, so he's not very high on my list.

You can't do what's right?
You can't see the good in humanity?
You can't be the better man?
You can't strive for a better world?

Wow, Claymore, setting the bar low.

If the only thing you get out of Superman comics is "Dude can fly and shoot laser beams," you're reading them wrong.