Guns?

[YesIExist]

I noticed a thread here on guns, and the consensus for that thread is pro-gun. Well, I tend to be anti-gun. I'm not trying to create enemies or be a troll; I just don't see them as doing a whole lot of good, except perhaps in the hands of a capable law enforcement officer. I am aware that there are many responsible gun owners; however, as they say, a few bad apples might spoil the whole basket. Perhaps that is what is skewing my view.

However, I'm open to some ideas. What I am interested in, is what makes guns so appealing? Why might someone choose to target shoot or hunt animals as compared to another hobby?

Please, no fighting. This thread is for the pro-gun folks to say what makes guns great. What am I missing out on by not firing a weapon?

No judgment; I sincerely want to understand what the hype is all about.

For the record, I have never fired a gun, though I have shot a BB gun (whoop-dee-doo ).

[LorentzForce]

they just look cool. just... does.

like an inanimate piece of carbon rod, but it looks cool. don't ask me why, it just is.

[YesIExist]

[double post]

[YesIExist]

Hmm. Okay.

By the way, I was 15 when I shot that BB gun. Yay.

Anyone else?

[Twilly Spree]

I'm just going to keep my mouth shut, I think we all know how I'm feeling.

[LorentzForce]

i was 4 when i first touched my hands on a BB gun. a Remington shotty, which a very bad loading mechanism of having a looooooooong spring instead of a proper cartridge or such. always tangled. and eventually broke down due to abuse. can't help it, i was only 6 when i broke it. then dad bought me another of the same gun. same problem. later mum bought me an AK model, and loved it even since. too bad i used wrong ammunition size, got blocked, attempted to rescue it with a chopstick, then chopstick also got stuck to the barrel. shoulda have disassembled it first...

[YesIExist]

Hehe.

Another question: do you think that a person's environment (such as at home) will have something to do with a person's viewpoint about weapons?

For instance, I've heard that in Texas (US), many people own guns. Are people more likely to own a gun when they have more exposure to them? Maybe such people will feel weapons are more acceptable, and therefore be more likely to have one?

Thoughts, anyone?

[Stephen]

I grew up about 2 miles outside Baltimore Maryland. Anyone that knows anything about Baltimore knows it has "issues" Every night on the news, someone got shot...drive byes etc etc etc. When i was 10 my family moved to Maine. Part of the reason was the fact that Maryland was going to crap fast. City was starting to kinda...infest the whole state. Much like other large citys do. Part of life. However I always was taught respect for a gun...part of why there are so many accidents in the United States is a lack of respect for a gun. You respect a large bottomless pit...why? Cause if you act dumb around it your gonna make an oil mark...if the bottomless pit has a bottom...(moving on) With proper training guns can be quite safe and yes fun to use. I personaly use them for hunting purposes, though my father and I from time to time go shoot skeet in our backyard. (we have a big back yard in a quiet area...ah the beauty of Maine ) Anyway, I understand some people do not like guns....I am not ignorant to that. And thats cool...I would never hand someone or show someone a gun that was not comfortable with it...thats just rude. However there comes a point when peoples opinions begin to effect others...and thats not right. Like anything in life...when treated with respect and not a redneck hodown attitude...guns can be a safe part of life. Now...on an Admin note...I have tryed not to sound argumenative...because that is not my intention...(simply stating my opinion) If someone has a big beef with what I said...feel free to PM me and I would be more then happy to hear you out. I really hope nothing bad comes from this....letting this stay open that is. So far everyone has been very respectful of each other...and that is awesome. Keep it that way folks ok?

[MillyFan]

[quote="YesIExist"]I noticed a thread here on guns, and the consensus for that thread is pro-gun. Well, I tend to be anti-gun. I'm not trying to create enemies or be a troll]


I'm anti-gun too. I believe that weapons cause harm and are not needed.

[Straylight]

I don't have a massive problem with guns, for the reasons that Cephas stated. Think Rouroni Kenshin and replace "sword" with "gun".

However I think that gun prohibition/legalisation should depend on the society. If handguns became legal again here in the UK, I know exactly the types of people who would want to get hold of one. The result would not be pleasant. Because Americans have had guns in their culture more than the Brits, I'd say Americans also have a better attitude towards guns.

There is also the point that if guns were banned in America, a huge black market would spring up and regulation would be impossible.

[Bobtheduck]

...

I dont' care about guns, but...

The most gun saturated nation in the world (switzerland I believe) has fewer problems with them than the US does... I don't know how to interpret that, but it is worth a thought.

[Haibane Shadsie]

Maybe Switzerland has a more emotinally-controlled culture? I don't know.

I'm not into guns. Know next to nothing about them, really... a few things. Didnt' grow up with them as my mom's always been terrifed of them. (Has to do with an accident that almost killed her when she was a little kid... uncle cleaning a hunting rifle). And... I wouldn't want guns in my house just because... my brother. *shudder*

My brother... let's just say... he's a gun lover, but he and guns SHOULD NOT be within a 10 mile radius of each other. Guns in my household would be... more dangerous than not having them. (For some people, maybe they are safer that way, the whole self-defence against criminals). Not my house... having guns around would increase my likelyhood of being a violent crime victim. @_@. (Between my brother... and the suicidal thinking that I get sometimes).

I lean more toward guns being a non-benficial invention than a beneficial one... Sure... human violence was around long before they were around... but they just seem more... *effective* than swords, spears, and arrows. Easier to be accurate with a gun than with a bow or a sword... (except maybe with a crossbow.. that was once banned by the Vatican for being too accurate and effective as an instrument of death! *In Medievel times* *Thank you, History Channel!* )

That's beside the point now, though. We have them. I respect *responsible* gun owners, and I believe wholeheartedly in the addage that "If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns"... a scary thought.

I have fired a gun before. The last time was several years ago... my brother in law was playing with a new rifle he got for Christmas and let me fire it a couple of times... skeet shooting in the desert. I can't hit the broad side of a barn


I respect hunters. I've never hunted, but I do fish, and I grew up around hunting. From my experiences fishing... there is just something special about getting your food straight from the source yourself.... getting it directly from the wild. It's not that I enjoy killing at all... in fact, with fishing, I feel kinda sorry for the fish... but I still like it. It's like... a connectedness with nature. Things kill other things to eat. These fish, if not caught by me, would likely be eaten by other fish... or herons, or eagles, or other fisherpeople. It's like... not denying the truth of nature and having a connection with history and the wild...

Anyway, with the hunting side... like I said, I have uncles who hunt. They use both firearms and bowhunting, but mostly bowhunting. If I took up hunting, I'd want to try bowhunting...seems like it would be more challenging and would give me upper body strength. Hunting is something that is good for those who do it... from all the hunters I know, the real thrill of it has to do with being out in the wild, not necessarily making a kill every trip. And... when a hunter I know does make a kill... well, game meat is supposed to be healthier than farm meat... and dove and elk taste darn good! (LIkes to get elk meat from uncle whenever possible).

[Bobtheduck]

I respect hunters. I've never hunted, but I do fish, and I grew up around hunting. From my experiences fishing... there is just something special about getting your food straight from the source yourself.... getting it directly from the wild. It's not that I enjoy killing at all... in fact, with fishing, I feel kinda sorry for the fish... but I still like it. It's like... a connectedness with nature. Things kill other things to eat. These fish, if not caught by me, would likely be eaten by other fish... or herons, or eagles, or other fisherpeople. It's like... not denying the truth of nature and having a connection with history and the wild...

I mean no offense by this, but I was shocked to see that you were in exact agreement with me on this point. Except, perhaps, that I feel anyone who eats meat really needs to kill their own food at least once. Meat doesn't come from "a supermarket" or "McDonald's." Meat comes from an animal. People often turn that into "eating meat=wrong" but I think that's ignorant of the truth of nature, as you put it. Instead, we should all be taught to at least have a respect for the animals that are killed for our food. Humans are omnivorous, and as such I think there really can't be anything wrong with eating meat, but I dislike the mechanical nature of the issue. If everyone had to kill their own animal at least once; look that animal in the eyes (or eye, if it's eyes are on the sides of it's head) and know that there is a cost to everything in our lives... Even farming results in the death of animals, so even vegans are accessories to the killing of animals. But, the people that are bothered by hunting but happily eat their bigmacs, I have the largest problem with them.

As for guns, I won't get into it. I feel it is a stupid thing to fight over, and get annoyed by the whole fight.

[redkorn]

well i live in a small town and everyone owns a gun, and no one has ever been murdered or there is no crime, cause ppl where i live are responsiable, plus everyone pretty much relative too everyone.

[Knives]

[quote="YesIExist"]I noticed a thread here on guns, and the consensus for that thread is pro-gun. Well, I tend to be anti-gun. I'm not trying to create enemies or be a troll]



Well. were do i start ummmn. Ok Guns are well not killing machines humans are! OK got that.Switzerland is one of the safest countrys...why because almost every family owns guns. Now about why people like hunting...people like hunting because well i dunno some people like it and some dont

[Technomancer]

Switzerland's case probably has more to do with culture than rates of gun ownership. I don't have anything against hunting per se as long as it is done in a responsible manner, and properly managed. Many people after all, especially in the north rely on it for food.

For the most part though, I'm in favour of gun control. Living in Canada, I don't see much merit in the idea that guns make people safer, at least not when widely distributed.

[Icarus]

However, I'm open to some ideas. What I am interested in, is what makes guns so appealing? Why might someone choose to target shoot or hunt animals as compared to another hobby?

I like target shooting for much the same reason that I like math. It's a challenge. How much control I can exercise over myself and the gun to make the shots into as small a group as possible. Can I make the bb go just where I want it to? Can I destroy the center of the target? Can I hit the lid to the milk jug? As I said, the fun is in the challenge.

And by the by, I've only shot my airguns and shotguns (for trap).

[cbwing0]

I definitely fall into the "pro-gun" (or rather, "anti-gun control") category. I do not own any guns (other than bb, pellet, airsoft toys ), but I want to at some point. I have never been hunting, but I enjoy target shooting, especially when it is competitive. I am a decent marksmen, and I like the security of the fact that if I ever had to use a gun, I could use it properly.

To hold a gun is to hold the power over life and death in your hands.

I would add that they are in many cases mechanical works of art, which is why I "like" guns (in addition to most other weapons).

[Shinja]

i enjoy many aspectests of firearms and thier activities. first i enjoy the feel of fire a firearm it is both a challange and a joy when i am sucessfull at hitting my target. ive always been good at shooting, even as a child its one of those things im natural at and am naturaly drawn to. but on top of that im am very facinated whith mechanics and how things work, and my love of mechanical design, and designing things also plays a very good part in my love of firearms. i also take firearms very sierously and i hope with the proper respect that shold be given to thier ueses and safties. i believe that thier ownership by citezens is probably the key to holding all our other rights, for it shows the trust and Good faith of the government for it citezens. i also suport guns for thier benifits to save lives. i especilly believe women should carry them for women are the greatest target in america.

i also see no differance between the sport of shooting and the sport of karate, or kenjitsu, or other actcive sports that involve many of the same focuses or training. To shoot at a competitive level requires as much practice, patience, and thought as any martial art, not only in form and action but in the design and functionality of your firearm, this is not unlike kenjitsu where one must not only learn how to control ones action, but also the deatails of the weapon itself.

welp i think thats enough

[Stephen]

My question would be...to people who are very much anti gun...just because you do not like or agree with somthing....how is it fair for you to make that decision for everyone A lot of people have died in Jeep roll overs....if suddenly I got some bills into legislation about banning Jeeps...would that be fair to honost Jeep owners? (hopes he made a point somwhere along the line) Or while we are on the car line...everyone and there sport utilitys....considering how many die each year in small cars because soccer mom is yapping on her cell phone?

[MillyFan]

Taking away guns doesn't make people any safer either.

Oh yeah? Tell that to the people in Japan, where shootings are one of the least common causes of violent death. ^^

I believe a total ban on firearms (or, at least, the restriction of their possession to law enforcement and shooting sports with proof that the person is not using them off the range) would cut down on much crime in America.

Simply put-people die in gun accidents every day. People who have guns are not most likely to use them to kill an armed intruder (even putting aside whether one should or should not do that)-most firearm discharges in the US where another person is involved are either accidental, or intentional homicide in a rage.

You say anything can be used to kill. Sure, but someone in a rage state is likely to calm down somewhat if they have to search for an item to use as a weapon, and may realize that it isn't such a bright idea after all to kill. Someone with no martial arts training or brute strength isn't likely to kill someone with his or her bare hands. My question is-do we need guns? I say NO, we do not.

As for the defending oneself idea. . .here's a little thing a lot of gun dealers don't want you to know. A robber breaking into your house may find your gun before you know the robber is there. It may get wrestled from your hand if someone is stronger than you are. There are cases where law officers (who are trained in firearms handling) are killed with their own gun-an untrained amateur is even more likely to get into such a situation.

Now, as for one more point of my rant: If you kill someone intentionally, even in self-defense, you have acted in the place of God to decide whether that person is worthy of life or death. You will also have regrets. Think of how much someone who, say, killed a pedestrian he didn't see while driving must feel-then multiply that by a few million times because you made the choice to shoot. You made the choice to have a firearm in the first place.

Would living with such regrets over what you had to do to save your property, or even your own life, even be worth it? If you don't think you'd have regrets like that, think you'd be fine with someone else dying because of your actions. . .congratulations on being a cold, heartless psychopath, and please tell me where you live so I can stay a few hundred miles away from you.

I'm sorry. . .I've just lived in some bad neighborhoods in my life. To me, a weapon isn't a magical symbol of self-defense, it is a sign of desperation, fear, and paranoia taking over someone's life. If you've ever had a neighbor shoot at random cars on the street from his yard at 3:00 AM (yeah, that happened to me back when I lived in Lakeside, the neighbor was two houses down on the intersection of Wintergardens and Fair Lane-he ended up going to prison for three years for ADW), you'd possibly understand where I'm coming from.

[Bobtheduck]

[joke]I think I'm psychic[/joke]... I can predict the outcome of this thread and some of these posts pretty easily.

It's sad these debates have to get so bitter, and in reality what sparked this was disagreement over the do not discuss thread. Boy, I'm glad we're all so mature here.

[The Silence]

I have a particular grudge against BB guns because i had a cat which was shot by one... It caused her to be paralyzed from the waist down. This cat was only one year old, and very high energy. She couldn't walk or even twitch her tail and she was so miserable. My parents ended up deciding to put her down. What's up with that?

[LorentzForce]

unless you're holding them by their throats physically, you can't stop people making/use guns if they want to. no political law of such will prevent anything. people who are responsible will abide to rules, if they come up. but would people who previously has been using guns illegally care about all those legislations and conduct rules? i don't think so. even if it'll be death sentence, as long as they can't be caught they'll think it's fine. chances are, even if it's death sentence they might not even take a hint. so what's the point of law?

there really is no easy way to control guns. if it exists, people will get it somehow. like anything else that's illegal. just because government says no doesn't mean people won't get it. alas, they are the people who shouldn't be 'people', but it can't be helped right now can it?

guns are a double-edged knives. like it or not, it'll hurt both ways.

[edit] i feel sorry for the cat, and the BB gun was probably a higher-powered version used by an immature kid. hey, my friend has BB guns and his cat died because of age. i guess it's all a matter of where you live.

[The Silence]

unless you're holding them by their throats physically, you can't stop people making/use guns if they want to. no political law of such will prevent anything. people who are responsible will abide to rules, if they come up. but would people who previously has been using guns illegally care about all those legislations and conduct rules? i don't think so. even if it'll be death sentence, as long as they can't be caught they'll think it's fine. chances are, even if it's death sentence they might not even take a hint. so what's the point of law?

there really is no easy way to control guns. if it exists, people will get it somehow. like anything else that's illegal. just because government says no doesn't mean people won't get it. alas, they are the people who shouldn't be 'people', but it can't be helped right now can it?

guns are a double-edged knives. like it or not, it'll hurt both ways.

I agree with that for the most part, but alot of cases involving violent youths with guns, often obtained the gun from the possesion of a "responsible" relative or some such place, right? If a would-be gun owner who is responsible abides by such a law, it would eliminate that method of getting a gun for some messed up kid.

[Bobtheduck]

I also think that evidence to the contrary (countries that don't have guns) is ignoring that those countries have not had guns as an established part of the society, and that a great deal of gun crimes in the US were by illegally owned guns in the first place (not registered to the person using it, traded on the black market, owned by convicts who lost their gun priveledges)

As of now, every gun leaves a unique identifying mark because of the grooves in the barrel. If guns were illegal, guns may be made differently, making it harder to pinpoint who did what crime. They may get arrested for having a gun, but may not get convicted for a murder they committed because the guns may be made differently.

Arguments about Canada and England don't hold water talking about the US, because there are a whole slew of different variables...

It must be said, however, that guns aren't the only way to hunt... There's bow hunting, spear hunting, there's traps... All of these things can be a more challenging way to hunt. Also, it is true that people often don't have time to ready a gun when they're being invaded and some people have acciedents. I think the problem with the murders isn't the guns, however, it's just the state of mind these people have to begin with. If you took guns away in the US, violent crimes wouldn't decrease drastically. Guns are just a tool. It's still the human heart that makes them sin.

BTW, I know very little about guns, but the grooves make the bullets spin... Taking them out would just keep them from spinning (maybe making them slower?)

[MillyFan]

http://www.accessnorthga.com/news/ap_newfullstory.asp?ID=29761

Even a police officer can have an accident with a firearm. I don't think untrained amateurs would be any less accident-prone.

[Shao Feng-Li]

[quote="YesIExist"]I noticed a thread here on guns, and the consensus for that thread is pro-gun. Well, I tend to be anti-gun. I'm not trying to create enemies or be a troll]
*Im, repling directy to the first post*

Well what makes cars so apealling? Its the way they look, same as a gun. Like cephas said, you hold life and death in your hands, sort of.

Guns were given to us to protect ourselves from the government, and what if someone braked into your home with a gun? a shotgun might come in handy. Gun control is a joke.

[LorentzForce]

therefore Judge Dread style of guns should be done. wrong DNA = gun won't work. how sweet.

[edit] and it doesn't even have to be database oriented. make the gun take data of first person to use the gun that government has issued, and only that person can use that particular gun from now on.

of course, people will still bypass it. chances are though, at least it'll be minimised.

[inkhana]

Here's an article from WorldNetDaily. This fellow ought to have the credentials to know what he's talking about it since he's studied crime for many years.

[quote="WorldNetDaily"]

Firearms key to crime control

[i]WND talks to 'More Guns, Less Crime' author, Prof. John Lott Jr.
Editor's note: September's edition of WND's popular Whistleblower magazine focuses on "Guns in America." Subtitled, "Myth-busting research says firearms in more hands result in less crime," it asks this question: Which vision for America – that of Second Amendment supporters (unfettered access to firearms for law-abiding citizens) or that of gun-control proponents (severely limited access to firearms, or an outright ban) – actually results in a safer and more civilized nation?

Yale law professor John R. Lott, Jr., Ph.D., author of “More Guns, Less Crime,â€