Laminin

[CephasWhite]

Read my entire post before doing anything else. If the admins or mods would be able to sticky this, that would be great. I think everyone should see this:

Right when any of you read the title, most of you are thinking:

"Laminin? What is Laminin? What's Cephas talkin' about? Geez!"

I was watching a DVD called "How Great Is Our God Tour" and it involved a Christian Minister and Scientist, Louie Giglio, who talked about:

- Our Solar System
- Our Earth as a golf-ball
- The Suns in the Universe (MASSIVE STUFF!!)
- Our Human Body

I can't explain everything I've heard on the DVD, but it was a definite eye-opener for me.

The last thing Louie explained was the most important Protein that keeps EVERY SINGLE CELL, again EVERY SINGLE CELL, in our body intact.

This cell-adhesion-molecule protein that was explained to him from a professional Molecular-Biologist, is called, "Laminin".

When I heard him they this, I was just as confused as you are now. By now you're all probably saying,

"HURRY UP AND SHOW US!!! PLEEEEEEEEEEASE!!!"

Alright, when you see this...please reply your thoughts. I'm hope you'll find this protein quite beautiful and meaningful to all our lives. Remember, this particular protein:

HOLDS EVERYTHING IN OUR BODY TOGETHER. Without it, we would be nothing:

This is the video segment of Louie Giglio explaining Laminin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e4zgJXPpI4

Watch the video first and if you want, I have the image if you want to keep it for yourselves. Only get the image !!AFTER!! You see the video:

http://originalzchick.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/laminin.jpg

I was just amazed, shocked, and in tears when I saw this. I love you all. Enjoy yourselves, because God keeps us together...in more ways then one.

[sharien chan]

I thought this was really cool. My Fiance's mother sent it to me. I was like wow! :O

[CephasWhite]

I'm glad you said that That's what I thought.

[GeneD]

I've seen Giglio's How Great is Our God and the other, similar one Indescribable. How Great is a bit of a summery of Indescribable though.

Giglio's talks are usually pretty good. To anyone going through a hard time, I suggest checking out the DVD Hope. It's excellent!

[Nate]

And gluons are the particles that keep protons and neutrons bound in atoms. Without gluons all atoms would literally fly apart.

But I don't see a thread raving about gluons?

I mean don't get me wrong, obviously Laminin is an important protein but I fail to see why this is so life-changing it deserves its own thread.

Christian Minister and Scientist, Louie Giglio

He's not a scientist. He has a Master of Divinity from a theological seminary. A theologian, yes. Not a scientist.

[ChristianKitsune]

Gaahh I knew there would be some cynical posts here...so much so that felt cynical about this too.


It's a symbol, yes, but DUDE that's an awesome symbol with an awesome message!

Seriously, without Christ, WE WOULD FALL APART! Seriously!

Stop being so cynical about things, and start praising God for the awesome lessons that we can find in "simple" cellular makeup.

I thought this was very awesome. I know it's not REALLY the cross...but wow...that was still really cool.

[Nate]

Stop being so cynical about things, and start praising God for the awesome lessons that we can find in "simple" cellular makeup.

But I don't see an awesome lesson in it is the thing. Yes, I realize without Christ we would fall apart, I don't doubt this for an instant. But comparing it to a protein? I don't get it. I guess I'm just not the kind of person that needs to find a symbolic representation of religion in everything in the entire world.

"You know, being a Christian is a lot like baking a cake!"

"You know, being a Christian is a lot like nuclear fission!"

"You know, being a Christian is a lot like some obscure protein!"

It's just pointless to me. The absolute truth that Christ is our savior and He has saved us from Hell is enough. That's more awesome and wonderful than any ridiculous contrived allegory could be.

I thought this was very awesome. I know it's not REALLY the cross...but wow...that was still really cool.

Uh...what? o.O The cross? When did that come into the discussion? *confused*

[ChristianKitsune]

But I don't see an awesome lesson in it is the thing. Yes, I realize without Christ we would fall apart, I don't doubt this for an instant. But comparing it to a protein? I don't get it. I guess I'm just not the kind of person that needs to find a symbolic representation of religion in everything in the entire world.

"You know, being a Christian is a lot like baking a cake!"

"You know, being a Christian is a lot like nuclear fission!"

"You know, being a Christian is a lot like some obscure protein!"

It's just pointless to me. The absolute truth that Christ is our savior and He has saved us from Hell is enough. That's more awesome and wonderful than any ridiculous contrived allegory could be.

Point noted, but there are a lot of people out there who have been touched by this... I mean... you take someone on the verge of becoming a Christian, or someone who is really new...and they see something like this... Allegories are amazing teaching tools for them...

Even Jesus used "allegories" (parables) to get his points accross...

Granted, i don't know if this needs to be Stickied or anything like that ^^]Uh...what? o.O The cross? When did that come into the discussion? *confused*[/QUOTE]

ummm did you even watch the video? XD
That last part was like...an add on to my post it had nothing to do with what you said, sorry Nate!

[Nate]

ummm did you even watch the video? XD

I tried but I got kind of bored of it about halfway through. XD I got to the part where he was talking about some molecular biologist, and the whole "Laminin is like the concrete for a building foundation."

I mean... you take someone on the verge of becoming a Christian, or someone who is really new...and they see something like this...

I understand, but again, gluons are more or less the same thing as laminin so I don't get it? I want to say that's because Christians aren't as opposed to biology as they are to other forms of science but I dunno. It just doesn't seem awesome or life-changing to me. I mean obviously there are fundamental building blocks to all things in life, so it just doesn't seem ground-breaking to go "This is what holds all cells together!" Well, yeah, something obviously holds them together... *shrug*

[ChristianKitsune]

Okay, Nate...did you look at the Picture of the Cell then? ^^;

If you look at the picture of the cell, that's why we all think it's soo cool... if you won't go through the movie then click on the link that Cephas posted.

It doesn't SEEM like a big deal, and really you are right about how there are other molecules that are really important and keep the body going too...but when you look at the picture of the cell it just kinda makes it cooler?

[Nate]

Okay, Nate...did you look at the Picture of the Cell then? ^^]
I did, actually. I looked at it before I watched the video.

If you look at the picture of the cell, that's why we all think it's soo cool... if you won't go through the movie then click on the link that Cephas posted.

It's cool because it looks like the medical symbol? I don't get it...

[LadyRushia]

Heh, cool. I saw Indescribable and this reminded me of that cross-shaped galaxy or whatever it was that the telescope captured.

I dunno, I think there's a pattern here. God is everywhere and in everything after all.

[Nate]

Wait what? Are people saying laminin looks like a cross or something?

...

I want to hold back my laughter at the sheer absurdity of this ridiculous belief but I can't help it. Good Lord, no wonder people laugh at Christians. This is unbelievable NONSENSE.

Let's look at the facts, shall we? Oh no, I used the "f-word." :O

1. Protein diagrams are way open to interpretation. There are MANY different ways to draw proteins. For example:



This is a completely accurate drawing of laminin, only now it looks like a sword. Another interpretation of laminin can be seen here: http://www.agr.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~tagen/figure/fig3(eng).gif

You can draw it a couple of other ways. The point is it doesn't matter. If you want to draw it like a cross, that's fine, but that's how YOU are drawing it. It means nothing.

2. The problem with looking for symbols, religious or otherwise, in the natural world isn't that they can't be found, but that one will invariably find way too many. I'm sure if one looked hard enough, it would be thoroughly possible to convince oneself that certain types of flowers were meant to resemble Buddhist Dhammacakras, or Jewish stars of David.

Let's take a look at that photo of laminin, shall we?



Hmm. Why did Louie choose to use the bottom picture, rather than the top picture? They're both laminin. But is it possible that trying to shoehorn religious symbology is a lot harder when the thing you're talking about looks NOTHING like the symbol it's supposed to represent? That laminin on the top doesn't look a thing like a cross. For that matter the one on the bottom doesn't either, it looks more like an ankh to me, but whatever.

People, when God said if we look to nature we would find Him, that doesn't mean God LITERALLY put crosses and hidden messages saying "I am God!" into what He created. It means if we look at the world around us we will see the awesome wonder of all that He has created! It will make us say, "God is certainly an amazing artist to create all of this!"

Looking for "hidden messages" like this makes us look foolish. Laminin only looks like a cross so much as you THINK it looks like a cross, just like it can look nothing like a cross as in the example above. Things sometimes look like other things and there is no significance behind it. For example, here's a picture of C60 fullerene:



Hey looks like a soccer ball! Does that mean soccer is a divine game that is built into the very fiber of our being? No, it means that it looks like a soccer ball. Nothing more, nothing less.

God is awesome, and everything He has created is wondrous. It's missing the point entirely to play "Let's find basic shapes" on a microscopic level instead of looking at the beauty and splendor of God's world.

[ChristianKitsune]

Wait what? Are people saying laminin looks like a cross or something?

...

I want to hold back my laughter at the sheer absurdity of this ridiculous belief but I can't help it. Good Lord, no wonder people laugh at Christians. This is unbelievable NONSENSE.

Let's look at the facts, shall we? Oh no, I used the "f-word." :O

1. Protein diagrams are way open to interpretation. There are MANY different ways to draw proteins. For example:



This is a completely accurate drawing of laminin, only now it looks like a sword. Another interpretation of laminin can be seen here: http://www.agr.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~tagen/figure/fig3(eng).gif

You can draw it a couple of other ways. The point is it doesn't matter. If you want to draw it like a cross, that's fine, but that's how YOU are drawing it. It means nothing.

2. The problem with looking for symbols, religious or otherwise, in the natural world isn't that they can't be found, but that one will invariably find way too many. I'm sure if one looked hard enough, it would be thoroughly possible to convince oneself that certain types of flowers were meant to resemble Buddhist Dhammacakras, or Jewish stars of David.

Let's take a look at that photo of laminin, shall we?



Hmm. Why did Louie choose to use the bottom picture, rather than the top picture? They're both laminin. But is it possible that trying to shoehorn religious symbology is a lot harder when the thing you're talking about looks NOTHING like the symbol it's supposed to represent? That laminin on the top doesn't look a thing like a cross. For that matter the one on the bottom doesn't either, it looks more like an ankh to me, but whatever.

People, when God said if we look to nature we would find Him, that doesn't mean God LITERALLY put crosses and hidden messages saying "I am God!" into what He created. It means if we look at the world around us we will see the awesome wonder of all that He has created! It will make us say, "God is certainly an amazing artist to create all of this!"

Looking for "hidden messages" like this makes us look foolish. Laminin only looks like a cross so much as you THINK it looks like a cross, just like it can look nothing like a cross as in the example above. Things sometimes look like other things and there is no significance behind it. For example, here's a picture of C60 fullerene:



Hey looks like a soccer ball! Does that mean soccer is a divine game that is built into the very fiber of our being? No, it means that it looks like a soccer ball. Nothing more, nothing less.

God is awesome, and everything He has created is wondrous. It's missing the point entirely to play "Let's find basic shapes" on a microscopic level instead of looking at the beauty and splendor of God's world.

I agree with you there... I was a little bit baffeled too..because one of the picutres he did show looked a little lopsided.

i don't think anyone really looks for symbols or crosses, Nate. I sure dont look at a tree and say "Wow, Jesus sacrificed himself on a piece wood JUST LIKE THIS TREE"

I look at the tree and say "Wow, God created that, he created all of this... what an awesome God we have."

But it is cool when we see things that GOD DID make, such as our bodies, and even the tiny protien cell and see little hidden messages...

but yah, I do agree with you partially... Christians need stop looking for shapes in the cells, clouds, toast and whatever and start looking at what is obvious.

God loves us.
He created us because of that.
He sent His son to die for us so we can be with him.
If we believe that, put our trust in God, and follow Him...
We will be saved.

That is what is important, I'll go with you there.

However, its just the meaning behind the cell that was what the guy was talking about... That God will keep us together if we rely on him...it's not really the shape so much, but it's just a symbol... no one is really freaking out and saying "OMGOSH! THATS A CROSS THE CELL IS DIVINE"

At least, I wasn't.. O_o

[chibiphonebooth]

woah thats pretty awesome!!

i showed it to my dad, and he thought it was pretty cool too.

[LadyRushia]

Good argument, Nate. I personally don't go looking for symbolic stuff like that because, like you said, I see enough of God's awesomeness and creativity in people. cultures, nature, etc. I thought it was interesting that a basic protein happened to have a cross shape, but I didn't know that it could be diagramed in many different ways. That kind of goes to show that you have to think about what you learn.

I do think, however, that this specific example could be used as a witnessing tool to some extent, at least something along the lines of the necessity of basic proteins as a parallel to the necessity for Christ.

[Fish and Chips]

I think we should all just chill out, sit back, and hum the Moyashimon theme.

[sharien chan]

I'm glad you said that That's what I thought.

Yeah I was nervous posting what I thought because I know some people will take it too seriously and get all mad, and it will start some debate.

But ! if Chibiphonebooth showed it to her dad (who is my priest, and her family is basically my second family) then I don't feel so stupid for thinking it's awesome XD.

And even if it is a lopsided cross or whatever, and some people think it's stupid, I still like to think that it's something God did to show us something.

[Nia-chan]

I think we should all just chill out, sit back, and hum the Moyashimon theme.

Thank you, that video made me smile xD

Bacteria... cute yet deadly

[Radical Dreamer]

A. Please don't turn this thread into a debate.

B. This thread doesn't really need to be stickied (especially not at this point, my gosh. XD)

C. I've seen Indescribable and it's pretty cool. I didn't watch this video, but Louie Giglio's had some pretty cool messages before.

[ShiroiHikari]

I don't have much to say except that I totally agree with you, Nate, and thank you for making an educated reply instead of just being like "lol u guyz r dumb".

Why do we need to have cross-shaped proteins in our bodies to know that we need Christ? Especially when said proteins do not always look like crosses? If you need to see such extreme and misconstrued symbolism to convince yourself to believe in Christ...well, I don't know. That sounds like a bad thing to me.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Nate, and thank you for making an educated reply instead of just being like "lol u guyz r dumb".

I want to hold back my laughter at the sheer absurdity of this ridiculous belief but I can't help it. Good Lord, no wonder people laugh at Christians. This is unbelievable NONSENSE.

Let's look at the facts, shall we? Oh no, I used the "f-word." :O

Huh?

Nate, what really upsets me with your post is not the information you present, but your tone. I'll probably agree with you when it comes to your rebuttal, but your condescending tone with a lot of your posts just makes you sound like you lack respect towards others.

That and when it comes to argumentation, you lose tons of credibility by sounding like a jerk.

[Sakaki Onsei]

If anyone truly wants to understand God as presented in biology, just look at the construction of the heart.

A thoracic surgeon is a good person to have nearby.

[Nate]

I didn't watch this video, but Louie Giglio's had some pretty cool messages before.

Having been to the Passion Conference before I can safely attest to the skill this guy has at speaking. He is indeed cool. I don't hold this transgression against him. :p

That and when it comes to argumentation, you lose tons of credibility by sounding like a jerk.

You should see the post I didn't make. Nah honestly the post I didn't make wasn't too different but I took out some needlessly abrasive language.

1. Anyone who buys into the "This protein shaped like a cross is proof of God's existence!" believes in an absurd and ridiculous theory. They themselves are not absurd or ridiculous. It is possible for intelligent people to believe ridiculous things. Look at all the atheist scientists for proof of that. :p

2. The "facts" line was a joke. Perhaps not a good joke, but a joke nonetheless, and considering the fact that these people who came up with the absurd theory were ignoring the fact that this protein is not cross-shaped unless looked at a certain way, I'd say it wasn't unwarranted.

God is awesome, and everything He has created is wondrous. It's missing the point entirely to play "Let's find basic shapes" on a microscopic level instead of looking at the beauty and splendor of God's world.

I fail to see how this sounds like a jerk.

If anyone truly wants to understand God as presented in biology, just look at the construction of the heart.

Reminds me of this:

http://www.whoisthemonkey.com/videos/28/family-guy-american-beauty

[Warrior4Christ]

And gluons are the particles that keep protons and neutrons bound in atoms. Without gluons all atoms would literally fly apart.

But I don't see a thread raving about gluons?

I thought it was the strong nuclear force that did that....

[ShiroiHikari]

Huh?

I said "educated", not "nice and polite". >_>

[Kunoichi]

Altho i find all points of this...discussion interesting and I see all points of the disucussion...I have to agree that symbolism is looked for often (mary magdalene in the French Toast comes to mind) however, that doesn't mean that God won't use pictures, parables, symbolisms etc to speak to an individual. For my own example, I was struggling with my faith and own home situation, light from the church window came in and to me it looked like a dove on the wall. It gave me peace and comfort. Whether others would have seen it that way didn't matter to me cuz it spoke to me.

In my opinion, if it stregthens the faith in a brother or sister, is there really harm? Or does it just prick the "intelligent mind" that you "shouldn't" look for it?

This was not aimed at anybody...simply my thoughts.

[GeneD]

I agree with Kunoichi in that many different things can become a "symbol" or a source of inspiration or a "massage" to anyone. Of course that means that we shouldn't go looking for them everywhere, but we also shouldn't shoot down something that might be symbolic or inspirational to others or helps them in their Christian walk in any way.

If you think about it, the(any) cross is the biggest symbol of them all. I don't want to go into theological areas but I was thinking what would have happened if Jesus was hanged or the punishment of the day was something else entirely, we wouldn't have a cross as a major religious symbol...just a thought.

[Radical Dreamer]

If you think about it, the(any) cross is the biggest symbol of them all. I don't want to go into theological areas but I was thinking what would have happened if Jesus was hanged or the punishment of the day was something else entirely, we wouldn't have a cross as a major religious symbol...just a thought.

My grandma has always made the joke that she doesn't wear crosses because she's like, "it's like wearing an electric chair around your neck!"

She's so funny. XDD

[Fish and Chips]

A good friend of mine refuses to wear a cross on his person or in his house.

"When Jesus comes back, the last thing he's going to want to see is another cross."