This is going to hurt.

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This is going to hurt.

Postby GeneD » Thu May 15, 2008 12:15 am

I don’t know if it is kind of strange to be posting this here, pardon me if it is, but I’m going to go ahead anyway. :sweat:

I’m still relatively new here and I don’t know a lot of people yet, but this community is one I love and a place I can go to have fellowship with people who share a passion of mine. As my friends and family could tell you, I’m somewhat of an anime freak and it tends to work itself into a lot of different areas of my life, which is why this is going to hurt. :(

I was at my Bible Study group yesterday and I felt a conviction from the Spirit that I need to get rid of the illegally copied anime I “ownâ€
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Postby Fish and Chips » Thu May 15, 2008 12:46 am

Actually, I do have a question for you (and not meant to bring this into debate territory). Do you use "Illegal" to refer to downloading licensed properties, or a blanket term for all downloaded Anime period, available outside Japan or not?

This question is ONLY for GeneD, to answer by PM if she prefers, and ONLY to satisfy my curiosity, though I may have different advice to offer depending on her response.

Back on topic, I do feel compelled to buy Anime when it is available to the greater American market, unless it is reasonable to borrow a friend's legitimate copy. And by friend I mean within walking distance, not "My Friend" in Singapore. Your conviction is a healthy one, and I advise you go for it. Do not worry about expenses too much, there are tricks to keeping your costs down.
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Postby Syreth » Thu May 15, 2008 1:20 am

I think you made a good decision. Another option might be amazon.com (though you might run into some of the same difficulties as with iTunes). As to whether or not to borrow pirated anime from friends, that's a tough call. While you aren't the one doing the illegal act, it might harm your conscience, depending on how much you intend to discourage pirated anime among the people you know.
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Postby AsianBlossom » Thu May 15, 2008 2:49 pm

I applaud you for doing what you believe is best (and is the right thing to do). Getting rid of a large collection of something you found out is illegal may be difficult, but in the end, you'll be better off. And like others have said, it's possible to find cheaper (and still legal) ways to buy anime. Just watch out for bootlegs and you'll be good. :)
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Postby ShiroiHikari » Thu May 15, 2008 3:23 pm

I can respect your convictions even if I do not share them.

Maybe one day you'll be able to buy your own anime.
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Postby Syreth » Fri May 16, 2008 12:58 am

Oh, something comes to mind: my friend has bought a few boxed sets through e-bay at a decent price. But again, the issue of bootlegs comes up.
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Postby termyt » Fri May 16, 2008 5:55 am

I agree with your convictions and you should never ignore your convictions.

It is also good to support the industry that produces the hobby you love. Hopefully, changes are coming to the way the industry operates so that it will become more fan-friendly.

Good deals are available from time to time. Robert's Corner Anime Store and Right Stuf International both run sales and sell discounted anime. (You will need to research how the international shipping would work for you). RightStuf runs sales monthly with discounts as much as 40% off retail price. Rob's also accepts PayPal.

eBay has some good deals, but also a lot of bootlegs. Amazon will sell you bootlegs, too, so be careful there as well.

Of course, not having a credit card complicates things as well as limited income. You just need to budget and prioritize your purchases.
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Postby Saj » Fri May 16, 2008 6:20 am

I agree with your convictions as well. I in fact had the same conviction a few years ago, and didnt think about it, i just deleted all the music, anime, movies, and pirated games I had on my computer. I missed my music movies and anime, but you gotta remember, God will provide, even your anime :OD
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Postby Shao Feng-Li » Fri May 16, 2008 6:46 am

Overstock.com has some pretty good rates. Flat shipping rate of $3.
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Postby EricTheFred » Fri May 16, 2008 7:24 am

"Not having a credit card..." Very hard to do, in the States. In South Africa, do they have 'Check cards', aka Debit Cards? Or preloaded cards? (Where you put the money in up front and reload it again whenver it gets low.) These are often still available even to those that can't, due to age or credit rating, receive a credit card, and most of them pay through the Visa or Mastercard network here in the States.


Another option, that may or may not be available where you are. Here in the States we have 'Netflix'. I don't know what service might be available in South Africa, but look for some way to legally rent by mail, or over the internet. Netflix is both, although the videos available online are not as numerous as those available by mail. Still, for my monthly fee, not only do I receive a disc in the mail every time I send the last one back (it's a flat fmonthly fee for a set number of discs in your hands, not a fee for time held) but I can go online and watch legal streaming content on the Netflix site.

I do what you do, acquire the titles I've enjoyed as soon as I can legally do so. In a couple cases I've never even opened the legal box, although usually I will rewatch the series when I get it. The difference, however, seems to be my purchasing power. I can well imagine falling behind and slowly accumulating an impossibly long 'need to buy' list if I had less disposable income. So I can understand your decision.
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Postby Tyrel » Fri May 16, 2008 7:51 am

GeneD (post: 1226350) wrote:I don’t mean to start debate about illegal anime and such, and I don’t want to make anyone feel condemned or anything. This is just my personal conviction. I will, however, need all the help I can get.

Wish me luck and thanks for being such a great anime haven for me!


Well, you definitely are doing the right thing by following your convictions. That's admirable any way you look at it. If you want to watch anime online without torrenting, you can always go to places like animecrazy.net where loads of series are up for public viewing. If you have Firefox, you're also able to download whatever you stream, so you could download what you want to watch, and then watch it in a better player than Veoh, if you don't like Veoh. YouTube and others often have episodes up in parts. I'm not sure if that's all white or gray though... well, In any case, it's just an idea to consider if your thirst for anime becomes unbearable while you are waiting to purchase and receive.

I do wish you luck in your purging process :grin:
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Postby bigsleepj » Fri May 16, 2008 8:19 am

We have debit cards in South Africa, but they are no good for international purchases. At least mine isn't.
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Postby GeneD » Fri May 16, 2008 11:11 am

Thanks to everyone for the encouragement and advice. I have a debit card, but as bigsleep said, they can't be used for buying over the net. I'll be checking out all the other options everyone suggested. :thumb:
Fish and Chips (post: 1226352) wrote:Actually, I do have a question for you (and not meant to bring this into debate territory). Do you use "Illegal" to refer to downloading licensed properties, or a blanket term for all downloaded Anime period, available outside Japan or not?

This question is ONLY for GeneD, to answer by PM if she prefers, and ONLY to satisfy my curiosity, though I may have different advice to offer depending on her response.
As for Fish's question, I've answered him via PM, but for anyone who wants to know; the short version is that I'm still trying to figure it out for myself. :sweat:
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Postby Sheenar » Fri May 16, 2008 12:02 pm

I use a debit card for everything I buy online. I just enter it in the Credit Card information slot and the amount is taken from my checking account.
I know Rightstuf accepts debit as does Half.com. Just shop around and see what you can find...
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Postby EricTheFred » Sat May 17, 2008 9:07 am

GeneD (post: 1226685) wrote:Thanks to everyone for the encouragement and advice. I have a debit card, but as bigsleep said, they can't be used for buying over the net. I'll be checking out all the other options everyone suggested.


Unless this is a South African law, I am thinking perhaps 'Debit card' for you means 'ATM card' for us. Mine is a dual card (can function as either) which is fairly common here. An ATM card withdraws money directly from the bank, without going through the credit card payment system.

The debit card I use is a Visa 'check card'. The payment system doesn't distinguish between it and a credit card. The only difference really is that it withdraws the money from your account immediately instead of adding it up over a month and sending a bill. If you charge more than you have in your checking account, you end up with the same overdraft penalties as if you write a check for more than you have in your account.

There are also prepaid debit cards, which you 'charge up' with money ahead of time. Effectively, this is the same thing, except that the account is at the debit card provider, and you have no checks. These are also hooked into the Visa or Mastercard systems, and the web page wouldn't know the difference between these and a credit card, either.
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Postby Saj » Mon May 19, 2008 6:10 am

If your over 18, you can usually get a check card from your bank, which would work like a credit card so you can buy stuff off the web. Thats how i do it.
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Postby Sailor Kenshin » Tue May 20, 2008 11:10 am

[quote="GeneD (post: 1226350)"]I don’t know if it is kind of strange to be posting this here, pardon me if it is, but I’m going to go ahead anyway. :sweat:

I’m still relatively new here and I don’t know a lot of people yet, but this community is one I love and a place I can go to have fellowship with people who share a passion of mine. As my friends and family could tell you, I’m somewhat of an anime freak and it tends to work itself into a lot of different areas of my life, which is why this is going to hurt. :(

I was at my Bible Study group yesterday and I felt a conviction from the Spirit that I need to get rid of the illegally copied anime I “ownâ€
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Postby MBlight » Wed May 21, 2008 7:52 am

It's a bit complicated here in SA, we have Credit Cards and then we have Debit Cards (ATM cards, if you will) You have to have a credit record to get a credit card, you also need to have a steady job paying over a certian amount. As GeneD is still a wonderful University Student she can't apply for a credit card just yet but D, I am sure I can make an alternative plan for you, if you like!!!
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Postby EricTheFred » Wed May 21, 2008 10:08 am

MBlight (post: 1228056) wrote:It's a bit complicated here in SA, we have Credit Cards and then we have Debit Cards (ATM cards, if you will) You have to have a credit record to get a credit card, you also need to have a steady job paying over a certian amount. As GeneD is still a wonderful University Student she can't apply for a credit card just yet but D, I am sure I can make an alternative plan for you, if you like!!!


So what's missing is the linkage of the ATM card into the credit card payment system... Since it is a darned convenient thing (and easier than killing a tree every time you want to pay for something with your checking account) I'm guessing SA bankinig laws are preventing them from giving you this option. I was afraid it would be something like that.
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Postby Chrysolite » Wed May 21, 2008 3:06 pm

A great site for buying anime is thisisanime.com. They sell region-free imports from Japan with English subtitles (sometimes even English dubs), so they're legal, but also MUCH cheaper than American releases. They even sell some anime that hasn't been released in the United states! (Hello, Tales of Earthsea!) The only problem is that the subtitles are sometimes poorly translated.

Now, on to the spiritual implications. I must warn you, this is a subject about which I have done much thought and research, so I may take a while. ^-^

First of all, the area of Copyright law. As an aspiring author I have done enough research to give me at least a semi-thorough understanding of copyright's function and purpose. Copyright laws were instated to stimulate creative literature by encouraging artists to create works with the understanding that their work is protected. That's why downloading illegal video, etc. is ethically wrong. You're denying an artist the fruits of their labor. However, it's easy to go to the other extreme where copyright law becomes counter-productive and actually stifles creativity. You see, some people get greedy with their work to the point where they don't care about their art nearly as much as their paycheck and they'll sue anyone who uses even the tiniest bit of their copyrighted material without permission. In this way, new talent get in fixes where they just want a character to mention a book or movie in dialogue or such and the original author or company wants them to pay a ridiculous amount of money to clear the rights. This sort of thing has happened before, and thankfully such abuse has led to the 'fair use' law, but my point is that if you have the mindset that everything not super-strictly adhering to the rules is morally wrong, you're missing the point that the law was created to enforce in the first place. I'm not saying you should ignore your convictions, in fact I applaud you for not doing so, but being that usually the only way to 'legally' see anime is to buy it or go to Japan, I think this law is one that begs to be bent. I definitely don't think you should keep illegal copies of copyrighted video. It's completely disrespectul to an artist who's work you claim to admire. However, if you bought every anime you took a small interest in, you'd end up broke and buried in cruddy anime. I say rent it if possible. That way you've seen it, and if you can't afford to buy it, oh well.

Another minor point is that anime, as awesome as some of it is, has a tendency to be very tainted by the secular Japanese mindset. Some anime is very objectionable by Christian standards and such work is not something you want to financially support. Once again, I'm not advocating illegal downloading here, only pointing something out. My little sister has made it her policy not to buy anime she has not seen thoroughly to make sure it is acceptable, but she buys them ecstatically once she has approved them.

What my sisters and I do is watch anime streamed on a site like youtube or veoh. If we like it enough to want to own it, we buy a legal copy (and it should be noted that we do this a lot of the time). If we don't like it, or like it but not enough to own, we cut our losses and move on. It's a tad hypocritical, I know, but it's the only way the industry's gonna get any money out of us anyway, so I think they'd understand. We never download. Not permanently, at least. And we love buying legal anime DVDs and showing them to our parents and friends who can't all crowd around a computer monitor.

I hope at least something in this rigamarole has helped you or at least made you feel better. God will provide!
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Postby Dante » Wed May 21, 2008 3:47 pm

Doing it (Getting rid of haxed anime)... good idea. Posting it on the internet where swarms of bad cooperate lawyer sharks may be lurking for a case to sink their slimy teeth into for no good reason... bad idea!

I have 56k... So I've never even had the temptation for this kind of stuff... they couldn't PAY me to wait a month to download a couple of episodes :P. But I realize its a big problem for others and recommend A) Getting rid of it if you have it and B) never supporting companies that use legal options to ruin the youth of our country for their private profits.

My stance: Never support or enjoy the works of a company that is willing to make a quick buck by ruining the life of a young person. (Especially when they preach such hypocritical stances as fight the institution as many songwriters/anime artists do).

Unfortunately this stance is difficult to perform in terms of part B I must admit... Speaking of which, anyone know a list of companies that are sueing over this type of thing so I can download it and make sure I never support them?

Thanks!

I wish you luck and pray that you are protected in your decision to do so GeneD.

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Postby GeneD » Thu May 22, 2008 9:51 am

MBlight (post: 1228056) wrote: As GeneD is still a wonderful University Student she can't apply for a credit card just yet but D, I am sure I can make an alternative plan for you, if you like!!!
Of course "I like"! I'm all ears to what you have in mind. Ingrim (sp?) perhaps?

Pascal (post: 1228203) wrote:Doing it (Getting rid of haxed anime)... good idea. Posting it on the internet where swarms of bad cooperate lawyer sharks may be lurking for a case to sink their slimy teeth into for no good reason... bad idea!
I'm sure it'll be fine, but thanks for the advice.

I'm still struggling with the 'borrowing (downloaded) anime from friends since I can't rent it anywhere' issue. I really need to hear from the Lord about this, but I don't trust myself enough to hear Him clearly, I'm afraid my bias will "cloud" my hearing.

So in this regard I have a request to make; if there's anyone who feels up to it, do me a favour and pray about it and see if you can hear anything for me about this from the Lord. I'll be doing the same, but I guess I just want some conformation. Is that wrong? I'm sorry if this is a strange request, but there you have it. If anyone feels they can help me out, you can PM me. Otherwise you can just pray for clarification. Thank you.
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Postby MBlight » Fri May 23, 2008 12:18 am

Ingram, my dear lady, is at your service *makes elaborate bow*

Just let me know what you are looking for and I shall use my Super-woman-ness to make your dreams come true!
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Postby ShiroiHikari » Fri May 23, 2008 9:48 am

Chrysolite (post: 1228195) wrote:A great site for buying anime is thisisanime.com. They sell region-free imports from Japan with English subtitles (sometimes even English dubs), so they're legal, but also MUCH cheaper than American releases. They even sell some anime that hasn't been released in the United states! (Hello, Tales of Earthsea!) The only problem is that the subtitles are sometimes poorly translated.


Actually...those region-free discs are Hong Kong/Taiwan bootlegs. Japanese DVDs are never region-free. HKs are really kind of a waste of money. I mean, none of the money goes to the original creators anyway, plus the subtitles are almost always unintelligible. I would not recommend buying them if you can help it. I personally would rather download than pay money for HKs. XD
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Postby Chrysolite » Sat May 24, 2008 7:20 am

Hmm. I noticed that the subtitles were sometimes pretty bad but I didn't know they were illegal. I always thought they were just legal releases from another country. I never took the time to do any hard research (I wouldn't know what to look for, anyway). Are you saying This Is Anime is an illegal site? That would grieve me so! T-T

This might be too much trouble, and if so I understand, but do you think you could link me to a source for that info so I could check it out myself? :) It's not that I mistrust you, it's just that I think it's irresponsible to take word-of-mouth as fact, especially if it's from a stranger and/or if it's something you will pass around.

Thanks! ^-^
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Postby mechana2015 » Sat May 24, 2008 11:01 am

It's pretty much a given that region free typically means bootleg. It is very rare for a country to legally produce a DVD that has subtitles that aren't their own language.
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Postby Azier the Swordsman » Sat May 24, 2008 8:06 pm

Bad subtitles and Chinese subtitles also denote bootlegs.

If you want a surefire way of proving if a website sells bootlegs, go to amazon.com or animenation.com and compare the DVDs from the website with the official box covers of the anime DVDs as depicted on Amazon and AnimeNation. If you are looking at the same series with completely different DVDs, bootleg.

And, after browsing around This Anime myself, I can safely say it's all bootlegs. Sorry.
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Postby NuclearPeon » Sat May 24, 2008 9:23 pm

I understand the turmoil you must be going through, GeneD.
Now I'm definitely not the best role model on this forum by any means, but perhaps my viewpoint may help.

I am a firm believer in freedom, open-source, and the benefits of the internet. I have been downloading for quite some time admittedly, and while there are pitfalls and negatives to downloading, I'd like to point out some positives.
(Hopefully this doesn't offend anyone, it's more for the purpose of perspective.)

Downloading is good because it increases popularity and familiarity with said anime. (Why did the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya become so popular before it was imported to America? I'm assuming because of downloading, blogging, and word of mouth) You life in South America right? Well regardless, SA does not receive as much exposure to goods via retail as via the internet and downloading sites.

Downloading is good because we can compare and choose what we like without spending money, in order to direct our funds at things we would appreciate more (than if we were to buy without pre-knowledge of the product).
Basically, trying the full version before buying. While many people would abuse this point, I'd like to say that it also increases related merchandise purchases. (things you cannot download, such as toys, figures, cards, mugs, backpacks, writing utensils, etc.)

Downloading is good because along with increased exposure, areas of the world where anime is scarce may start ordering it (via ebay, amazon, or other sellers that ship to their areas) which then shows the distributors that there is indeed demand in those areas of the world. Therefore, it may actually benefit by having anime shipped to those anime-dry areas of the world.

Of course, this is all theory and is dependant on who you are, and whether you are just downloading so you don't have to pay.

I'd like to point out my own personal experience: There have been a couple times where I have downloaded anime and then later purchased the dvd sets retail. My reasons for doing so were that I needed un-subtitled anime for making music videos and due to scarcity of the official anime dvds.
At one point, there was a manga I enjoyed reading so much that I was compelled to buy the anime.

And lastly, I'd like to point out that some of the anime I download is very very rare and impossible to buy here. In fact, if I was to buy the entire 10-disc box set, it would cost over $600 to import it. It's out of print and everything ;_;

What I'm trying to say, is that I believe that for me, downloading is a way of weeding the good from the bad, finding rare gems, and exposing others to an amazing work of art without the risk of damaging the offical disc or other potential losses. I could go into the whole "downloading is like using the library" spiel, but that's political and doesn't take into account personal integrity. =/

Hope my first post helps!
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NuclearPeon
 
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Postby ShiroiHikari » Mon May 26, 2008 11:50 am

And lastly, I'd like to point out that some of the anime I download is very very rare and impossible to buy here. In fact, if I was to buy the entire 10-disc box set, it would cost over $600 to import it. It's out of print and everything ;_;


My fiance and I run into this problem all the time. We like old mecha series, and only about 1% of them have been released in the US. If we were to import all the series that we want, it would probably cost like 5000 dollars. :\
fightin' in the eighties
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ShiroiHikari
 
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Postby NuclearPeon » Mon May 26, 2008 6:39 pm

[quote="ShiroiHikari (post: 1229744)"]My fiance and I run into this problem all the time. We like old mecha series, and only about 1%]

You really hit the nail on the head there.
It's a Limited Edition 10-disc set of an old mecha series. (Is 1997-ish that old?)

Funny thing is, to buy all 10 of the discs individually, it would cost the same. To make matters worse, there are no subtitles. In which case, I would like to point out that downloading would be in neutral territory. *shrugs*
Anime should be taken like all forms of entertainment: with a grain of salt.
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