Women pursuing men

[Yuki-Anne]

Well, here's my couple of yen.

I like shy guys. I've realized this means me initiating further contact. However, I've also been on the other side of the coin where I pursued and it creeped the guy out. I tend to be overly aggressive and I've discovered it's a turn-off for a lot of guys.

I think it's different for everyone depending on the situation. You have to be sensitive to the person you like, and to be observant of them. Is he a shy guy? Then you'll probably have to initiate contact.

I'm still working on the balance here, though.

EDIT: It seems to me, though, that when we try to take romance and put it to a formula (man pursues woman, woman is ladylike and accepts advantages, marriage is happy, tons of babies, and so forth) we don't leave room for God's amazing creativity when it comes to people. We see romances of all kinds in the Bible; we see Isaac and Rebekah's arranged marriage, we see Jacob's pursuit of Rachel, we see Ruth's pursuit of Boaz, and so on. Maybe God is trying to show us that no two stories are the same, and that we shouldn't try to make our story happen by some man-made formula. As long as God is at the center of your romance, it really doesn't matter who pursued who.

[TGJesusfreak]

So basically you're reinforcing the stereotype that all men are rapists and all women are seductresses. Glad we've made that clear.

... O_o

Don't go there, that's not what he meant at all.

What he said XD

TG, how much is too much?

I'll make this short and clear so that no one else gets confused.

when i girl HONESTLY persues a guy, It means she sees something in him.

When I girl is persuing any guy that will talk to her, then she is trying to get the guy to see something in HER.

they're opposites.

I think I get why he's saying to be careful. If I'm reading this right, it's less of a matter of perpetuating the stereotype that all men are rapists and all women are seductresses.

I read it more like this: the pursuit of men by women is fine. How else would a man know that she's interested and it's okay to respond? The problem comes in where a woman might be a little too intent in her pursuit. It's happened to me before where a woman was extremely flirty and I took it as a sign that it was okay to go further than she intended us to go.

In a sense... he's more saying to be careful about the method of your pursuit and be clear on the intent, because the risk of miscommunication still applies.

Did I get that right?

lol yep. That's exactly what I meant.

Let e REemphasize what i said earlier. My mom persued my dad. He didnt persue her. I wouldnt exist today if it wasnt for that. So BELEIVE me whe i say that i do NOT think that a girl is bad for persuing a guy, I think it is far from it. How is a guy supposed to know you like them if you never act like it?

[TGJesusfreak]

I meant to reply to this

Unfortunately TG sort of stepped on a rhetorical land mine here. The argument that 'guys are more physical, so girls better watch out' has been going around for hundreds if not thousands of years and in recent history has been used to justify nearly any injustice against women, including not allowing them to work, wear pants or ride in a car with a man they aren't married to, all because it's 'to protect them from men'.

It's also usually used to imply several things, including that women are incapable of making rational decisions when confronted with a lustful man, and that all men are incapable of self control regardless of individual convictions and therefore each gender should only be allowed to interact with the other so long as the women are accompanied by a man who has sworn fidelity to them.

TG may not have meant it that way, but that sort of phrasing carries a lot of historical weight. Again it was one of the primary reasons women were deemed unsuitable for the workforce at one time, and used as an excuse for arranged marriages as well. Many people nowadays would find such implications doubly insulting to women and men and a use of the worst examples as the stereotype for each gender, a stereotype that many people had hoped was long dead but keeps cropping up. It would be nice if it just meant 'be careful', but it's been used for so much more than that, and until it is not used as an excuse to push women away from men sheerly due to their genders, there will still be people that react as Atria and Shiroi did.

Yeah I did step on a mine didnt I? XD

Well you have a great point here Mech. I honestly didnt mean it that guys only want one thing and that whole nonsense.

bottom line is;

girls can make rational decisions.

guys can make rational decisions.

I never said otherwise

[firestorm]

What if a man doesn't want you and you're a girl. Do you do the pursuing?

I actually don't mind if a girl persues a guy. whatever works I guess xD

But one thing though, I don't know if I'm reading this different than everyone else but if a man doesn't want you or show interest before you start persuing, I doubt he'll show interest when you do start persuing. Infact, It might just end up hurting your feelings.

Anyways, yeah that's what I read when i thought about the question.

[Yamamaya]

[quote="Yuki-Anne (post: 1471769)"]Well, here's my couple of yen.

I like shy guys. I've realized this means me initiating further contact. However, I've also been on the other side of the coin where I pursued and it creeped the guy out. I tend to be overly aggressive and I've discovered it's a turn-off for a lot of guys.

I think it's different for everyone depending on the situation. You have to be sensitive to the person you like, and to be observant of them. Is he a shy guy? Then you'll probably have to initiate contact.

I'm still working on the balance here, though.

EDIT: It seems to me, though, that when we try to take romance and put it to a formula (man pursues woman, woman is ladylike and accepts advantages, marriage is happy, tons of babies, and so forth) we don't leave room for God's amazing creativity when it comes to people. We see romances of all kinds in the Bible]

Well it depends if the guy likes you in teh first place. If the shy guy likes you and you make it obvious that you like him, it's going to be much easier for him to ask you out. Yin and Yang baby, yin and yang.

[Atria35]

when i girl HONESTLY persues a guy, It means she sees something in him.

When I girl is persuing any guy that will talk to her, then she is trying to get the guy to see something in HER.

See, the thing is, this applies to girls and guys. So pointing out to women only is why I still have a bit of an issue with it.

[TGJesusfreak]

See, the thing is, this applies to girls and guys. So pointing out to women only is why I still have a bit of an issue with it.

Point taken. and a very good point at that.

[musicaloddball]

True, but if a man is ever to be a leader in a family, he should be a leading in a relationship-maybe not all the time, but certainly not leaving it all to the woman.

This.

I am not entirely sure what you all mean by "pursuing." Do you mean "asking out on dates"? I am a sheltered homeschooler, and it seems my idea of dating is more formal from most people's. lolz

In my mind, dating is a serious matter....like, "We're getting to know each other because we might want to get married" kind of serious. I would definitely want to be good friends with a guy before dating him. Whoever initiates the friendship doesn't matter to me. By the time I date a guy, he should not be shy around me anymore so personality does not seem to me to be an obstacle to his taking the lead. I've been good friends with guys and there is always a point after which shyness stops being an issue for both of us.

But I am a very quiet, shy, strange person. It would take a very strange, assertive kind of man to deal with me. lol

[ShiroiHikari]

no two stories are the same

Everyone is different. No two people are not on fire.

In all seriousness, I agree with you, Yuki.

Also, I'm sorry if I've been...harsh. I just take sexism and gender roles pretty seriously these days.

[armeck]

as a guy who is very shy, i would probably never express feelings to a girl unless i got some sort of impression that she liked me (and it would have to be a pretty dang strong hint)

[Garland]

as a guy who is very shy, i would probably never express feelings to a girl unless i got some sort of impression that she liked me (and it would have to be a pretty dang strong hint)

^This is how I am too.

[Riggidig]

While I am a relatively shy guy, I am old-fashioned, meaning I believe the guy should do the majority of the work when it comes to courtship. Of course I like it if a woman gives SOME form of indication whether she's interested or not. I just don't like being pursued. I've actually had 3 women pursue me the last couple of months and, while it was flattering (to a degree), it really turned me off. It just smacked of desperation to me (and don't get wrong here either: if I man pursues a woman and she's NOT interested in him romantically that is also desperate in my eyes).

[Yamamaya]

I used to be very shy but I'm not that shy anymore. However, I still can be more quiet when I'm around certain girls and I gradually become more friendly.

I can also be pretty flirty, which can backfire at times

[Vega]

Why is that being lazy? I'm shy, I'll admit it. I've asked two girls out in the past(both in middle school, ahaha) and it is incredibly awkward and terrible. Maybe if it wasn't the Worst Thing Ever, I'd be more inclined to pursue someone, but I'm not ever going to consider asking someone out unless there it really looks hopeful to me. I really dislike the insinuation that I'm lazy just because I don't want to ask girls out.

Well, Im incredibly shy around the opposite sex however thats not what keeps me from pursuing them. Its really that I dont feel like going through the hassles of pursuing. Thus, its lazyness, at least for me and others with the same mindset. Thats what I meant.

[Silent Seraph]

Well, Im incredibly shy around the opposite sex however thats not what keeps me from pursuing them. Its really that I dont feel like going through the hassles of pursuing. Thus, its lazyness, at least for me and others with the same mindset. Thats what I meant.

Seconded my man, you hit the bullseye with this one. Currently there's a girl at my school who shows very strong "hints."
BUT there's a fine line here, I find it if not annoying, at least a minor pain. Its gotten to the point where she will kick other people out of my lunch table to come and sit next to me. There is a dangerously fine line here and things could go downhill to a place I don't want to be. I'm just reinforcing that this could have its pros and cons based upon the situation.

[Maledicte]

Seconded my man, you hit the bullseye with this one. Currently there's a girl at my school who shows very strong "hints."
BUT there's a fine line here, I find it if not annoying, at least a minor pain. Its gotten to the point where she will kick other people out of my lunch table to come and sit next to me. There is a dangerously fine line here and things could go downhill to a place I don't want to be. I'm just reinforcing that this could have its pros and cons based upon the situation.

Wow. Seriously, you should tell her off on her behavior, that's really rude of her.

[Yamamaya]

Seconded my man, you hit the bullseye with this one. Currently there's a girl at my school who shows very strong "hints."
BUT there's a fine line here, I find it if not annoying, at least a minor pain. Its gotten to the point where she will kick other people out of my lunch table to come and sit next to me. There is a dangerously fine line here and things could go downhill to a place I don't want to be. I'm just reinforcing that this could have its pros and cons based upon the situation.

That's bad mojo man. I would steer clear of her. If she's willing to do that, who's telling what she might do?

[shooraijin]

I think there's a big difference between hints and asking. As a guy, I have no problem with hints (in fact, it's helpful, because hints tell me if my attentions are even warranted). But, personally, I'm turned off by a girl who directly comes up and asks, and I turn them down (and I have). I don't think that such a thing is necessarily a question of morality, but I'm not personally comfortable with it.

Perhaps I'm overly traditional, but if I'm not asking myself, it's because I'm not interested, I'm waiting for something to change such as their living situation, their location or their lifestyle, or I simply don't know enough about them to have decided if they are someone I'd like to date. If I get asked, I'm going to have to answer no anyway. Sometimes it's just a matter of timing.

[Atria35]

Seconded my man, you hit the bullseye with this one. Currently there's a girl at my school who shows very strong "hints."
BUT there's a fine line here, I find it if not annoying, at least a minor pain. Its gotten to the point where she will kick other people out of my lunch table to come and sit next to me. There is a dangerously fine line here and things could go downhill to a place I don't want to be. I'm just reinforcing that this could have its pros and cons based upon the situation.

What she's sending isn't a hint, it's being obnoxious.

[K. Ayato]

Yeah. Folks are gonna pick on the fact that she's up to no good. Best to confront her and tell her you ain't interested.

[steenajack]

:mutter: I really couldn't care less what you decide on calling it. Dating, courting, going together (okay, that was the '80s), whatever. It's still a guy and girl spending time with each other and seeing if the attraction goes beyond platonic. And no method is "holier" than another.

Okay, I'm done.

Just wanted to say this. ^^ So very much. I just wish people would stop getting so uptight about what to call it. No matter what term you use, it's going to have negative and positive meanings connected to it.

On another note, I'll post what I think on the topic: It depends. Every girl is different, and every guy is different, and every situation is different. Some girls like to pursue, others don't. Some guys are shy, and others aren't. It really just depends.

For me personally, I find it more "satisfying" when a guy pursues me, just because that's just the way I am. I like it. >////>; But, at the same time it's SLIGHTLY possible that if I was driven to do it, I probably would pursue a guy....then again, it would probably be because I REALLY liked the guy. *shrugs* Then again, why else do you pursue someone. XD! But yeah, in general I like being pursued, cause it's just how my mind naturally works....I just like it, so long as the guy doesn't try to "pull an Edward Cullen" on me.

[Yuki-Anne]

I think there's a big difference between hints and asking. As a guy, I have no problem with hints (in fact, it's helpful, because hints tell me if my attentions are even warranted). But, personally, I'm turned off by a girl who directly comes up and asks, and I turn them down (and I have). I don't think that such a thing is necessarily a question of morality, but I'm not personally comfortable with it.

Perhaps I'm overly traditional, but if I'm not asking myself, it's because I'm not interested, I'm waiting for something to change such as their living situation, their location or their lifestyle, or I simply don't know enough about them to have decided if they are someone I'd like to date. If I get asked, I'm going to have to answer no anyway. Sometimes it's just a matter of timing.

Question: I know all guys are different and so on, but what, to you guys, constitutes directly asking? Like, what if a girl asked a guy if he wanted to go grab a cup of coffee at Starbucks some time (phrased exactly like that, not explicitly referred to as a date)? And I'm assuming that if a girl asks a guy she's interested in to come along with a group as they go out for dinner, that is firmly within the zone of general friendliness.

Because I've done both. I've never directly asked a guy to go on a date with me, because I have observed that that level of aggressiveness tends to turn a lot of guys off. What I have trouble with are sending the right signals without seeming desperate. Which I'm not. I just tend to know what I like and go for it. Unfortunately there's an art to it that I haven't seemed to master yet.

[Nate]

I'm not shoo, but I'll answer the question from my personal experience.

if a girl asks a guy she's interested in to come along with a group as they go out for dinner, that is firmly within the zone of general friendliness.

Yes. If a girl asked me to come to dinner with some of her friends, it is a friendly gathering. It is purely platonic, and I would not assume any romantic feelings.

what if a girl asked a guy if he wanted to go grab a cup of coffee at Starbucks some time (phrased exactly like that, not explicitly referred to as a date)?

I would take that as romantic interest. It is (in my mind) a hint that she is interested in me as more than a friend if she wants to spend time alone with me.

That's how my mind works, at least. *shrug* Especially since "grab a cup of coffee" has almost become cliche shorthand for "date."

[K. Ayato]

I'm kinda in agreement with Nate's answer. Going out with a bunch of friends is not a date. Going for coffee when it's just the two of you is more within the dating territory. Not necessarily romantic, but definitely in the realm of "I want to get to know you" territory.

[ShiroiHikari]

I'm reminded of a bit by Eddie Izzard that I can't really quote here.

[Lynna]

I honestly think this is because of the 'Friend Zone'. They're afraid that you'll get so used to them being friends that they'd ruin the friendship and any relationship they have with you if they become friends and then ask you out. They risk everything that way. Just plain asking out? You have the opportunity to date someone and don't risk having them drop out of your life.

True Stupid Friend Zone. Although I guess I feel bad enough turning down someone I barely know

[Atria35]

True Stupid Friend Zone. Although I guess I feel bad enough turning down someone I barely know

You could always tell them that you'd like to get to know them a bit before you started dating.....That way, you'd both win.... sorta....

[Dante]

It probably doesn't need mentioning, but there has only been one time in my life where I felt driven to ask a girl out on a date or begin a dating relationship (and I'm not gay or even remotely attracted to men) - it happened a few days ago and gave me a window into an experience everyone else seems to have at least once (it was a truly different feeling than anything I've experienced in RL)...

...that was an awesome dream - but she vanished with the daylight along with the feelings.

These days though, I am beginning to wonder if other males feel like me - completely un-driven to consider dating relationships. I mean, what's the prize? If you're not controlled by hormones (and those vanished for me about a decade ago) what causes the drive? Why would people pursue this instead of other things? By the time you hit 25, it's not the sex, and given that age is coming down the turnpike at mach 10, it's not the good looks either. Relationship is cool, but you could just as well find a few good room-mates and have company that you can divorce for a lot less hassle and cost. Money can't be a valid motivator either, marriage pushes for houses and cars and stable jobs and when kids hit the fan that's going to be a big cut. (not to mention the loss of independence from suddenly having to be responsible and being given a new role you are basically made to fulfill)

So unless you're really itching to be a father, or feel horrified that your genetics won't continue down into history, what's the big deal? Why would we be driven to do this?

I think this is why women are starting to pursue this more. Mainly because men are losing interest in the idea and have to be sold on the prospect of forming this traditional relationship. Maybe I'm just out of the loop, so fill me in. What's the experience really like for most people when they reach my age?

[Solid Ronin]

It probably doesn't need mentioning, but there has only been one time in my life where I felt driven to ask a girl out on a date or begin a dating relationship (and I'm not gay or even remotely attracted to men) - it happened a few days ago and gave me a window into an experience everyone else seems to have at least once (it was a truly different feeling than anything I've experienced in RL)...

...that was an awesome dream - but she vanished with the daylight along with the feelings.

These days though, I am beginning to wonder if other males feel like me - completely un-driven to consider dating relationships. I mean, what's the prize? If you're not controlled by hormones (and those vanished for me about a decade ago) what causes the drive? Why would people pursue this instead of other things? By the time you hit 25, it's not the sex, and given that age is coming down the turnpike at mach 10, it's not the good looks either. Relationship is cool, but you could just as well find a few good room-mates and have company that you can divorce for a lot less hassle and cost. Money can't be a valid motivator either, marriage pushes for houses and cars and stable jobs and when kids hit the fan that's going to be a big cut. (not to mention the loss of independence from suddenly having to be responsible and being given a new role you are basically made to fulfill)

So unless you're really itching to be a father, or feel horrified that your genetics won't continue down into history, what's the big deal? Why would we be driven to do this?

I think this is why women are starting to pursue this more. Mainly because men are losing interest in the idea and have to be sold on the prospect of forming this traditional relationship. Maybe I'm just out of the loop, so fill me in. What's the experience really like for most people when they reach my age?

People don't like feeling alone.

[Yuki-Anne]

Well, Pascal, I'd say it's because everyone's different. I've known women who were utterly uninterested in relationships. I think it just depends on the person. Some people really want relationships, maybe for no reason at all. Some people don't. There's no right or wrong here, just personality.

It does start to get into right or wrong territory, though, when someone wants a relationship so badly they'll do anything to be in one, and they make that a more important goal than Christ. However, it is possible to be fully content in Christ and yet strongly desire a relationship.