real deep love problem...

[Solid Ronin]

I say quit dating all together. But that's my opinion.

Im with Michael

[Fsiphskilm]

[quote="ShiroiHikari"]I dunno what t

[Twilly Spree]

I like tarot cards...they're fun especially when you make up new meanings for the cards like "today you will fall down alot"

You're story was just fine by the way.

[shooraijin]

Tarot cards bother me, however, because of the roots from which they originate (even if used in a lighthearted context/given funny non-serious meanings). I have the same problem with things like ouija boards and other objects of "divination" even though most of their original intents or rituals have been heavily sanitized or bowdlerized.

[Gypsy]

Tarot cards bother me, however, because of the roots from which they originate (even if used in a lighthearted context/given funny non-serious meanings).

I'll second this. What I'm about to say is from personal experience.

Treating such objects like ouiji boards and even Tarot cards, even in most non-serious manner, is dangerous. It's better to just stay away from them completely. Playing with such things, even if you're making new meanings, does not change what they really are - objects steeped and created for practices of the occult.

[Mr. Rogers]

I'll second this. What I'm about to say is from personal experience.

Treating such objects like ouiji boards and even Tarot cards, even in most non-serious manner, is dangerous. It's better to just stay away from them completely. Playing with such things, even if you're making new meanings, does not change what they really are - objects steeped and created for practices of the occult.

i third this

stay away from the occult. me and my brother learned that the hard way. even "little" things like that, even if not taken seriously, can still have big spiritual damage. we both messed with "little" things like that and it keeps takin' u deeper if u keep messin with it. he eventually got into wicca, and now theirs a bunch of demons, behomets, and other stuff like that drawn all over my wall. he says he's out of it now, but the damage that it caused is still there. take it seriously and stay away from it. might seem like no big deal, but that's where the devil gets ya, is when it seems all innocent and fun.

[Michael]

'You can't clutch fire to your chest without being burned.'

[DragonSlayer]

All I can say about this is "DONT Chance it", but dont leave her to follow Satan all her life,She needs to be told, wether through your friend or not. but as far as him dateing her go's. Not even I would fall so head over heals with knowledge like that out in the open.(And thats saying a lot)

[EireWolf]

I'm just upset that people are writing her off without knowledge of what she is really like or what she has been through.

I wasn't writing her off as a person... I was giving strong counsel that a Christian should not date a Satanist. I can't believe that there's even a question here, really.

Of course I'm not saying, "Give up on her completely as a human being." Christ died for this girl, just as He died for you and me. But He also doesn't want His followers to yoke themselves with unbelievers... and that applies to more than marriage.

[Twilly Spree]

I'm personally floored by some of your comments. I've been playing what you call the "occult" for years. I remember me and two cousins playing with an old ouiji board and it being hysterical. You totally move it. In my house we have at least 3 sets of tarot cards, 2 regular and an egyptian deck. My sisters and I have always had fun messing around with them. So I'm going to have to disagree with alot of you on this. I see no problem in it, it's all just a farce. Only when you treat it seriously do you step into some danger.

Eirewolf, yes there is a question here. I think by labeling her a "satanist" you're writing her off. You know nothing of this girl or her past as I said before. You are just giving her a label. Does it upset you when people give you a label without knowing the real you? Of course. I thought we were supposed to spread the Good News. If you so easily forget this girl who's going to help her? Maybe this is God's way of saying "hey here's someone that you can help" maybe he doesn't have to date her but just befriend her.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone with my comments. I just can't sit here.

[Bobtheduck]

Ouiji boards and Tarot cards are what the Bible calls "Interpretation of Omens"

They are a bit more real than you think, Ninja. I know too many people who have had REAL demonic experiences with them... Not because they "took them too seriously" but because they just played around with them... Interpreting of Omens is a sin, like any other sin, but to give nod to it and say there's nothing wrong, that is really shakey ground.

BTW, real "satanists" excluding those in the highest ranks (particularly when Anton Levey was still around) are materialists... They don't believe in Satan or in God. They wear the term proud because they believe that Christianity is a lie and they want to offend Christians, so it's a game of opposites to them, even though most of them don't personally believe the things they say and do.

Uneven Yoke = Bad thing... Don't marry an atheist or a buddhist or a muslim or a wiccan or a satanist or a druid or a hindu or a Deist... Christians need to marry Christians. To do otherwise is asking for trouble.

Friendship is different... We HAVE to have non-christian friends, we just can't RELY on them for support... The only people the New Testament forbids friendship with are people who claim to be Christians but condone blatant sin and tell others to sin.

Blatant sin (like sexual sins, lying, etc) is something I won't keep quiet on among Christians... If you are a Christian, and you're interpreting omens or summoning spirits, you need to stop, confess it, seek forgiveness and renounce it entirely!

[cbwing0]

Only when you treat it seriously do you step into some danger.

Where do you draw the line? These devices are created specifically to harness/contact occult forces for personal use.

I think by labeling her a "satanist" you're writing her off. You know nothing of this girl or her past as I said before. You are just giving her a label.

She was first called a satanist by supa dupa ninja, the only person here who has had any personal experience with her. No one "labeled" her a satanist without cause. At at rate, if that label is an accurate description of her religous beliefs, there there is nothing wrong with it.

Maybe this is God's way of saying "hey here's someone that you can help" maybe he doesn't have to date her but just befriend her.

That's what we've been saying all along...he can still be her friend and share the gospel, but dating her is not wise.

Does it upset you when people give you a label without knowing the real you?

Does it upset you when people give you the label of "Christian?" Again, if the label is accurate (and we have no reason to suspect that it isn't), there is nothing wrong with it; in fact, it is just being honest in that case.

[shooraijin]

> Maybe this is God's way of saying "hey here's someone that you can help" maybe he doesn't have to date her but just befriend her.

I don't anyone here will ever disagree with this, but the point of the thread as it was started was that there *was* a romantic involvement. Still, I totally agree with you insofar as the above. There is no reason why he couldn't befriend her, and I think that *would* be a good action of witness, absolutely and unquestionably.

However, w/r/t Tarot cards and the like,

> My sisters and I have always had fun messing around with them. So I'm going to have to disagree with alot of you on this. I see no problem in it, it's all just a farce.

But yet to other people it's very real. This falls squarely under the whole issue of stumbling blocks, after all, and things of this nature are definite points of stumbling for many people.

[Michael]

Everybody's said what I was going to say to you Ninja, so I'll support them.

What's the status of the original problem?

[EireWolf]

Eirewolf, yes there is a question here. I think by labeling her a "satanist" you're writing her off. You know nothing of this girl or her past as I said before. You are just giving her a label. Does it upset you when people give you a label without knowing the real you? Of course. I thought we were supposed to spread the Good News. If you so easily forget this girl who's going to help her? Maybe this is God's way of saying "hey here's someone that you can help" maybe he doesn't have to date her but just befriend her.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone with my comments. I just can't sit here.

Sorry if I offended you somehow... but I stand by what I said. I didn't label her as a Satanist]not[/i] saying we should write her off because she is a Satanist... I said, "Christ died for this girl, just as He died for you and me." I did not say "forget about her." I didn't say he shouldn't be her friend, or pray for her, or talk to her, or whatever... I just said he shouldn't date her. That's all. Sometimes the truth offends some people... that doesn't mean I will not say it.

[Fsiphskilm]

Satanists... This is advice from someone

[Bobtheduck]

But yet to other people it's very real. This falls squarely under the whole issue of stumbling blocks, after all, and things of this nature are definite points of stumbling for many people.

At the risk of locking this thread or worse for me, I would like to say this issue goes farther than just a stumbling block. Spiritism and interpretation of Omens is WRONG no matter WHO's doing it... If it's a non-christian, it's just one more sin on the list and we have no say, but we definately have say in a Christian's life... Just like we should tell another Christian that premarital sex is wrong, interpretation of omens and other things that Revelations points out as serious no-nos should be at least warned about.

It's not a stumbling block, I.E. "People weak to those sorts of spiritual things MAY fall into a trap" but it's the sin itself. It's not like a movie that could tempt someone to sin, it's doing the sin that you'd be tempted to do... The interpretation of Omens is the sin itself, and it's very dangerous at that...

Sexual sins cloud your vision and understanding of God's forgiveness
"magical" sins (like the interpretation of omens, psychic training, or astral projection) alter your thinking and distort what God could say to you
Lying dulls you senses

there's more than that, but the sins listed in Revelations were the particularly dangerous ones. We have historically had a problem with the first and third, but the "magical" sins wasn't a big deal in the western church... Not until recently, anyhow... Sexual purity and honesty had allready been avoided, which is very dangerous, but we shouldn't avoid this issue as well.. Don't step further down that path... Cut it off...

[supa dupa ninja]

I feel bad now that I started this thread. I hope no one starts to flame each other....

[Orange Kitten]

No worries Supa Dupa.

Red Ninja and Volt said some stuff I pretty much agree on and would have said myself.

Did you ever say how old she was? or your friend? Could be she's just using the term "satinist" as a crutch. could be a cry out for help.

And how did you come to the conclusion that she is a satinist? Did you overhear her chanting "I wanna kill everyone! Satan is good, Satan is my pal!" (that's from the Burbs, btw. Tom Hanks, 1989, good movie hehe)

Or are you just saying that because she doesn't believe in God, like an atheist?

In any case, I say date her. Until she starts slitting your wrists while you sleep, you should be golden ^_~
Just 'cause you date someone, doesn't mean you gotta marry them.

See how it goes, you can always break off the relationship if it starts to go off the road.
When I say "you" I mean your friend

[JediSonic]

Wow. I agree with almost everyone who has posted in this thread so far... except orange kitten.

>>See how it goes, you can always break off the relationship if it starts to go off the road.

What?? Look Kitten, this person is a self-proclaimed satanist, so I doubt that she will just promptly walk into her boyfriend's religion (not for Jesus anyway maybe for the boyfriend) on a moments notice. That said, the only way for it NOT to "go off the road" is if they never ever talked about religion. Now personally I'm not-quite-14 and have a ways to go before I even think about getting a girlfriend, but when I do I assure you Faith will be a very important part of that relationship. You absolutely cannot marry someone with beleifs that are totally oppposite yours... it just CAN'T work out.

>>Just 'cause you date someone doesn't mean you gotta marry them.

Soooo... if you know you aren't going to marry someone, then why are you having that relationship? Lust?


Well, I really hope I didn't offend anyone with this post, not ninja, not his friend, not orange kitten. I just felt that some statements in the above post were out of line and wanted to express my views on the matter.

[Fsiphskilm]

I think he meant...just beca

[cbwing0]

think he meant...just because you date them doesn't auto-m. mean that you're getting married...One dates so that they may find someone to marry hopefully. Dunno.

In any case, I say date her. Until she starts slitting your wrists while you sleep, you should be golden ^_~
Just 'cause you date someone, doesn't mean you gotta marry them.

You are correct in saying that dating someone doesn't mean that you will marry them, but think about the reasons that people date:

1.Friendship-You don't need to "date" to have this with a member of the opposite sex.

2.Prelude to Marriage-I think it's been established that Christians should not marry satanists, even with the intention of converting them (how would you feel if someone married you just to change your mind?).

3.Premarital Sex-If we can't agree on this girl's status as a satanist, I think we can still agree that this is wrong for a Christian.

4.Weakness/Companionship-The need to fulfill some psychologial deficiency, or a simple need to be "with someone" at all times. This is a poor subsitute for confronting and overcoming the real problem underlying the behavior.

5.Convenience-"If we were the last two people on earth..." Although it is rare today, I know a few people who get together because there is no one else. Of course it could be argued that God brought them together, but I don't think this is the case here.

6.Lust/Infatuation-This could be combined with 3, but it is slightly different. This is cute, but it is ultimately fruitless. Lust is sinful, but infatuation is potentially pure, but still fleeting.

7.Experience-There is some merit in this one; that is, seeking to gain experience with relationships prior to marriage. However, there are far better candidates for this than satanists, who as most of you admit probably have some emotional problems.

Are any of the valid reasons in this case? The answer is no; so, even if the girl in question is not a satanist, it is still not a good idea to date her.

I think we have probably reached an impasse. Some of you are going to maintain that he should date her, and some of us are going to hold that he should not. I don't see anyone changing their mind, and this is a non-issue at this point if he has already asked her out. Are there any updates on these two (your friend and the satanist), supa dupa ninja?

[Orange Kitten]

I'm still waiting for Supa Dupa to say how old she is and how he came to the conclusion that she is in fact a real satinist.

(unless he did already say this and I just missed it somewhere)

For all we know she could be a normal gal and he just overheard some stuff or saw something and just took it the wrong way.

haha Back in highschool during wrestling practice I got the entire team to start chanting "I wanna kill...Everyone!....Satan is good! Satan is my pal!" (from the Burbs..sorry you just gotta see it) My friend and I started chanting it as a joke, and for some reason everyone else joined in as we were all running...someone passing by could easily take that the wrong way. But it was all in good fun.

And just as a note: I don't think it's too healthy in a relationship, to actually be even THINKING of marriage when you start dating someone. You can easily move too quickly. It just causes people to get married at a very early age; and if not that, just a lot more heartache in general when they breakup. If one person is thinking about marriage, and the other is not, the breakup is horrible to the person thinking of marriage.

Dating is a long process. You find someone that you might be compatible with, and you start going out on dates. It's the process of getting to know someone.
Don't think that just cause you go out on 1 or 2 dates with a girl/guy that you are immediately "boyfriend/girlfriend". It's just a date, it's not a commitment. Commitment comes later.

Example:
Let's say you meet a girl through work or somewhere. You've never seen this girl before, and chances are you won't see her again for a while. So you ask her for dinner or something, and get her number. You call her up and go out to eat. You then find this person repulsive. And you never call her again. So you went on a just date. But wait, does that mean you have to marry them?? uh oh... *sarcasm* How could you be thinking of marriage when you just met and have no clue what this girl is all about?

In many situations you can't "get to know someone" BEFORE you go on a date. It's easy in highschool or a class to learn about someone before asking them out. But outside in the real working world, it's a little different.

[cbwing0]

In many situations you can't "get to know someone" BEFORE you go on a date. It's easy in highschool or a class to learn about someone before asking them out. But outside in the real working world, it's a little different.

Perhaps, but this is irrelevant to the current situation involving two high school students.

For all we know she could be a normal gal and he just overheard some stuff or saw something and just took it the wrong way.

And for all we know she could be a diehard satanist]And just as a note: I don't think it's too healthy in a relationship, to actually be even THINKING of marriage when you start dating someone. You can easily move too quickly. It just causes people to get married at a very early age; and if not that, just a lot more heartache in general when they breakup. If one person is thinking about marriage, and the other is not, the breakup is horrible to the person thinking of marriage.[/quote]
There is still no escaping the futility of entering a dating relationship with someone that you should not marry (i.e., a satanist), or the fact that dating is not the only way to get to know someone. It isn't even the only path that leads to marriage.

[Orange Kitten]

Perhaps, but this is irrelevant to the current situation involving two high school students.

Very true]
And for all we know she could be a diehard satanist; and since that is the information we have been given so far with no evidence to the contrary, I think it is wise to accept it.[/quote]
Again, true. I think this thread has proven what should be done if she really IS a satinist. But I'm still unsure that Ninja's conclusion is REALLY correct, and I just like to touch the other possible scenarios. He is still yet to respond.
:-D

OH, and JediSonic. As far as we know, she is NOT a self-proclaimed Satinist. She is a "Supa Dupa Ninja proclaimed Satinist" Because someone says you are something, doesn't make it so.

[cbwing0]

But I'm still unsure that Ninja's conclusion is REALLY correct, and I just like to touch the other possible scenarios. He is still yet to respond.

Yes...the people have a right to know!

[Lochaber Axe]

I always find it amusing when a few simple words causes people to perk their ears to listen to a conversation they would normally not listen to. Its like when a man is raking leaves or doing chores in his backyard, and the family dog just lays on the patio and doesn't give a flip what the man is doing. Then the man brings out steaks for grilling and the dog perks up and starts to run around. It is quite amusing.

I don't think this thread would have gone far if S.D.N hadn't said that she was a "Satanist".

My opinion would be that we forget that she is that way (I am not saying that she is or isn't) and treat it as if she was a normal secular person. Arguing over the right to date someone that is a Satanist is unnecessary baggage. A Christian should not date anyone that is not a Christian. Yes the point that the first date doesn't mean that intimacy will occur is valid. But there is that big possible chance that intimacy and strong feelings could arise leading into more dates and into the danger zone for one's Christian walk. It is better to have the possibility of having mutual strong feelings for each other in the zero percentage by not taking that chance. Friendships are a lot better on the heart anyway.

[cbwing0]

I don't this thread would have gone far if S.D.N hadn't said that she was a
"Satanist".

There wouldn't have been a thread if she wasn't a satanist, as the major issue was whether or not it was acceptable for a Christian to date a satanist. Of course the argument might have been a little more vigorous if she was merely a nonbelieving secularist, but it would have had much the same conclusion. You are right in your next statements: the fact that she is a non-Christian is enough to settle the issue. It is surprising, but it appears that her putative status as a satanist made some pople defend her more than they would have otherwise (and I realize that on the surface that conflicts with my earlier statement; but what I mean is that there would have been more valid arguments by both sides if she was a mere secularist, as opposed to the emotion and speculation caused by her being labeled a satanist).

[Twilly Spree]

Unfortunately Catholicism believes that you CAN marry someone who is not Christian you just have to raise your children Catholic. So I guess I come from a different standpoint on this one.

I am not going to carry on anymore comments about this supposed "occult" behavior of mine. That's completely off topic. I do feel a bit overwelmed by some of your comments.

Thank you Orange Kitten for supporting me, even if it's just partially. It's not that I don't see all of your points, I just feel differently on the subject.

[cbwing0]

I am not going to carry on anymore comments about this supposed "occult" behavior of mine. That's completely off topic. I do feel a bit overwelmed by some of your comments.

I apologize if I was a bit harsh. It isn't anything personal; I just feel that it is necessary to answer error whenever it appears.