Women pursuing men

[Atria35]

I do know if I can find a girl who appreciates THIS, that would be pretty awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBsw_JlzIbs

Wait... they remixed power rock with 64-bit music?! xDDD I have to send this to my brother, and I have a friend who's soon gonna have a new ringtone with it!

[Mouse2010]

I hope this isn't getting too theological. I just wanted to say something about the idea that Christ's pursuit of the Church means that women shouldn't pursue men. I know that point came up awhile ago in the discussion, but I just had a brain wave on this point. If you take an allegorical reading of Song of Songs, such pursuit (although not exactly initiation of the relationship) is there in Chapter 3. Yeah, the Beloved DOES get to chase her Lover sometimes, even in Old Testament times. Rock on!

[Yamamaya]

Wait... they remixed power rock with 64-bit music?! xDDD I have to send this to my brother, and I have a friend who's soon gonna have a new ringtone with it!

Oh wait till you hear their Winnie the Pooh cover!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSKgOww3ycg

I hope this isn't getting too theological. I just wanted to say something about the idea that Christ's pursuit of the Church means that women shouldn't pursue men. I know that point came up awhile ago in the discussion, but I just had a brain wave on this point. If you take an allegorical reading of Song of Songs, such pursuit (although not exactly initiation of the relationship) is there in Chapter 3. Yeah, the Beloved DOES get to chase her Lover sometimes, even in Old Testament times. Rock on!

Pretty much. There isn't anything in the Bible suggesting what the best way to start a relationship is. It is pretty much left up to the cultural views of the day, whether they be Hebrew or Roman.

[Thunder Caya]

Not to mention the fact that if you let your date know that you are measuring them up for marriage, that puts a lot of pressure on your date. It makes them feel like their every action is being scrutinized.

I haven't had that problem. Mind you, on my first date with my boyfriend, he was already my boyfriend. (I don't date casually. I hang out so we can get to know each other, and once you are my boyfriend, then we can go on dates.) He was very understanding of the fact that I was in it for marriage and that there would be no sex before then. And if he wasn't all right with it, I would have known not to waste my time.

[Nate]

I just wanted to say something about the idea that Christ's pursuit of the Church means that women shouldn't pursue men.

Wait, now that I think about it, this makes even LESS sense. Even if you adhere to the church=woman God=man analogy, shouldn't the church be pursuing God? Shouldn't the church be making every effort to be close to God and get to know him better? Shouldn't the church actively be doing things to get that closeness to God? So the idea that women shouldn't pursue men because of this doesn't even work, unless you're saying the church shouldn't actively pursue a relationship with God, which doesn't make even the remotest bit of sense as far as I'm concerned.

He was very understanding of the fact that I was in it for marriage and that there would be no sex before then. And if he wasn't all right with it, I would have known not to waste my time.

I think it depends on how you meet, probably. Like if you've been friends for a while, and you decide "Hey we should try this dating thing, see how it goes," then focusing on determining compatibility for marriage is probably fine, since you already have a prior relationship and all that. But if you don't know each other that well, maybe only just met or something, then putting the focus on marriage would probably be a bit overbearing and uncomfortable, because you barely know this person and you're already talking about marriage?

Granted, I think most people on here aren't the type to go out and try and pick up total strangers (not that there's anything wrong with that, of course), but putting the focus on marriage with a largely unknown person would definitely cause problems. I mean, imagine a guy you've never met came up to you and said "Wow, you look gorgeous, and you seem really nice...let's get married." You'd probably be pretty creeped out I'd bet. :p So yeah, putting too much pressure on marriage can definitely be uncomfortable. It really depends on the level of familiarity you have with the person before you start dating.

[Thunder Caya]

"Wow, you look gorgeous, and you seem really nice...let's get married." You'd probably be pretty creeped out I'd bet.

Come on, you're exaggerating on purpose. >.<

"I just want you to know that the final goal is marriage. I'm not saying I want to marry you now, or that we have to get married in a year, or two years, or any certain time. What I am saying is that if marriage is not something you want, or if you decide that you don't want it from me, please let me know so that we can both find what we want."

That's what I said to him, though, with more "likes" and "you knows" and such, seeing as it was improv'd. I feel like you could say that to someone on your first date even if you don't know them that well, and that it's not nearly as creepy as what you said.

[USSRGirl]

Yeah... I'm with Nate on the Christ/church metaphor. That's pretty largely over extended in my opinion (even assuming you read Song of Solomon in that context which I personally don't... but still, just taking the other verses that relate to this...). I think this vastly misses the point of the whole symbolism and turns it into something it's not - a commentary on American dating. There is just so much cultural and practical items in the way of that and for this reason I strongly discourage using symbolic passages in overly practical ways. It distorts the bigger picture and turns the Bible into a societal commentary or a self-help book.

Jesus compares God to a hen gathering its chicks. This does not mean I shouldn't go to chik-fil-a and eat a chicken sandwich right now.

Personally, I think this is a societal issue and not a Biblical one.

[ich1990]

Yeah... I'm with Nate on the Christ/church metaphor. That's pretty largely over extended in my opinion (even assuming you read Song of Solomon in that context which I personally don't... but still, just taking the other verses that relate to this...). I think this vastly misses the point of the whole symbolism and turns it into something it's not - a commentary on American dating. There is just so much cultural and practical items in the way of that and for this reason I strongly discourage using symbolic passages in overly practical ways. It distorts the bigger picture and turns the Bible into a societal commentary or a self-help book.

Jesus compares God to a hen gathering its chicks. This does not mean I shouldn't go to chik-fil-a and eat a chicken sandwich right now.

Personally, I think this is a societal issue and not a Biblical one.

Holy crap, USSRGirl. This must be the "month of the prodigal member".

[USSRGirl]

Ichy!

Wait... you callin' me a disobedient son? T__T I am a female. I dun like your metaphor either.

[That Dude]

whatamireading.jpg

The role God has called you to play? Men aren't really men? What does that even mean? Are you really trying to say that it's ungodly for a man not to pursue a woman? Well, it is my opinion that that's BS.

You say it's your personal belief and your opinion only, and then you try to play the "do it because God says so" card? Way to force your own beliefs on other people. You say it's okay to be shy and then you turn around and say it's wrong. Which is it?

Whoa! Way to misinterpret!

Please read what I said closer. I in no way have a problem with women pursuing men. The statement "the role God has called you to play" was in no way meant in the context of pursuing someone of the opposing gender. What I was attacking was laziness and a reluctance to personally grow. I'm totally ok with guys being shy. I'm not ok with guys being shy and using that as an excuse for complacency in their relationship with God and in turn others.

ShiHi, seriously, look at the context of what's being said before you attack it. Next time I will try and structure my argument better, but please afford me the curtisy of actually taking time to look past your initial emotions to what's really being said.

Actually I think that's a good idea for everybody, I can guarantee you this thread alone would probably be two or three pages shorter if people didn't get hot-headed and go into attack mode before they actually thought thru what was being said and tried to look at it from the others perspective as well.

[Yamamaya]

Dude, no offense but when you use the words, "They need to grow a pair" you're obviously going to get more aggressive responses.

Using that term "grow a pair" doesn't really make any logical sense when you think about it.

[Yuki-Anne]

Wait, now that I think about it, this makes even LESS sense. Even if you adhere to the church=woman God=man analogy, shouldn't the church be pursuing God? Shouldn't the church be making every effort to be close to God and get to know him better? Shouldn't the church actively be doing things to get that closeness to God? So the idea that women shouldn't pursue men because of this doesn't even work, unless you're saying the church shouldn't actively pursue a relationship with God, which doesn't make even the remotest bit of sense as far as I'm concerned.

It was a complicated sentence, but you misread it, Nate. She said, "I want to say something about the IDEA" and then proceeded to cite Song of Solomon as a contradiction of the idea that it's ungodly for a woman to pursue a man. So actually, she was basically saying kind of the same thing you're saying.

And, That Dude... I say this in the most neutral, non-angry way possible. I want to stress that I personally am not upset. But I really understand the people who were upset by your post. Sorry, but I didn't see any other way to interpret what you said either.

The statement "the role God has called you to play" was in no way meant in the context of pursuing someone of the opposing gender.

But you posted it in a thread about pursuing someone of the opposite gender. In what other way were we supposed to take it? You didn't specifically say, "I don't mean this about pursuing someone of the opposite gender, I'm kind of just talking about people who are cripplingly shy..."

...which wouldn't actually make it all that much better.

Honestly, I'm not sure why you're surprised. You pretty much said outright in your post that you expected people to go ballistic, and you told shy guys to "grow a pair," which is pretty harsh. When you say something like that in a thread like this, people are naturally going to assume that what you mean is that a "real man" will do the pursuing, and all the guys in this thread who don't feel comfortable asking girls out are just "boys who can shave."

If you don't want people to misinterpret your posts, use gentler language. You can't say harsh things like that and expect nobody to get upset. The internets don't work like that.

[Mouse2010]

She said, "I want to say something about the IDEA" and then proceeded to cite Song of Solomon as a contradiction of the idea that it's ungodly for a woman to pursue a man.

Yes, this. I disagree with the idea. I guess I wasn't very clear. Someone else had brought up that Jesus-pursues-the-Church-ergo-men-should-pursue-women idea earlier in this thread and it was bugging me.

Even if you adhere to the church=woman God=man analogy, shouldn't the church be pursuing God? Shouldn't the church be making every effort to be close to God and get to know him better? Shouldn't the church actively be doing things to get that closeness to God?

Well, yeah, exactly. This is exactly what I was thinking: that the Church should pursue union with Christ, as should the individual Christian. ("Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you.") That was what led me to think of the SOS passage. I was trying to think of any place where we saw the Church pursuing Christ, and I thought of that passage from the Song of Songs, which, if read allegorically, would seem to be pretty relevant to the point someone else had made.

For the record, I don't actually think that SOS is intended as a guide to American dating. (I'm with USSRgirl on that.) But if people are going to use other parts of the Bible for creating analogies to justify traditionalist dating patterns, it might be a good thing to point out passages they might be overlooking that would complicate their arguments.

[Ante Bellum]

A person asked me out once. I said no, because I'm the freak who doesn't care for relationships beyond friendship. So, my opinion won't mean anything. I mostly just wanted to post this:

Dude, no offense but when you use the words, "They need to grow a pair" you're obviously going to get more aggressive responses.

Using that term "grow a pair" doesn't really make any logical sense when you think about it.

(Really, though, I think anyone should be able to pursue, regardless of gender.)

[Nate]

It was a complicated sentence, but you misread it, Nate.

No, no! Now I'm being misunderstood! D'oh! I wasn't talking TO Mouse, Mouse just brought up something that I felt the need to expand upon for people who earlier said that "Women shouldn't pursue men because men are like God and women are like the church." I was agreeing with Mouse completely! @.@

I guess I wasn't very clear.

No, you were perfectly clear! I was the one who wasn't clear. I should have said "Mouse brings up a good point and I'd like to add..." rather than how I worded it. Sorry. :\

[Yuki-Anne]

D'oh! We're all so misunderstood! D:

[ShiroiHikari]

I was about to type up a huge post but then Yuki-Anne pretty much said what I was going to say.

If you don't want people to get mad at you, try not being so harsh and try being a little clearer with your wording.

[Mouse2010]

No, you were perfectly clear! I was the one who wasn't clear.

Now, let's not quarrel. We can BOTH be unclear! There is no lack of lack of clarity in the world, so there is surely enough to go around.

[shooraijin]

Pressing reset button ... 5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ... 1.

USSRGirl said it best:

Personally, I think this is a societal issue and not a Biblical one.

So let's stick to "society."

[SailorDove]

Reading the different viewpoints & thoughts on the thread has been enlightening; since I really don't get out much. And who knows what awaits around the next corner. Some of the little tidbits were helpful too, (i.e. going Dutch could be interpreted to mean not interested, etc.) Of which I was totally clueless of.

I found it amusingly ironic how internet communications helps us to misunderstand each other even faster than in person. It was also cute reading some people's experiences of how they or someone the knew 'misinterpreted' or totally missed the "signals" being sent or not sent.

I feel comforted to learn that "pursuing" seems to have definite boundaries, (ie. stalking, etc.), yet is still surprisingly flexible to the eclectic mix of personalities amidst the human race.

[Warrior4Christ]

Wait... they remixed power rock with 64-bit music?! xDDD I have to send this to my brother, and I have a friend who's soon gonna have a new ringtone with it!

Ah yes, Powerglove... Also, 64-bit music is like, way into the future and not really necessary for our ears. The top notch pro gear is 24-bit, and CD music is 16-bit, and ancient games with monophonic sound is probably 1-bit of dynamic range. But "8-bit"'s probably the closest in terminology to what you're after.

On topic, That Dude has some good points. I'm a bit of a traditionalist. Does anyone else get weirded when say, the woman in The Proposal (movie) gets down on one knee with a ring? It just strikes me as quite odd.

[Atria35]

On topic, That Dude has some good points. I'm a bit of a traditionalist. Does anyone else get weirded when say, the woman in The Proposal (movie) gets down on one knee with a ring? It just strikes me as quite odd.

Weird? That was a crowning moment of awesome. Best part of the movie.

[Nate]

I'm a bit of a traditionalist. Does anyone else get weirded when say, a woman plays the role of Juliet in Romeo and Juliet? It just strikes me as quite odd.

[ShiroiHikari]

Nothing wrong with traditionalism I guess, but...I don't know too many guys who would refuse if the woman he really loved asked him to marry her.

[That Dude]

And, That Dude... I say this in the most neutral, non-angry way possible. I want to stress that I personally am not upset. But I really understand the people who were upset by your post. Sorry, but I didn't see any other way to interpret what you said either.

But you posted it in a thread about pursuing someone of the opposite gender. In what other way were we supposed to take it? You didn't specifically say, "I don't mean this about pursuing someone of the opposite gender, I'm kind of just talking about people who are cripplingly shy..."

...which wouldn't actually make it all that much better.

Honestly, I'm not sure why you're surprised. You pretty much said outright in your post that you expected people to go ballistic, and you told shy guys to "grow a pair," which is pretty harsh. When you say something like that in a thread like this, people are naturally going to assume that what you mean is that a "real man" will do the pursuing, and all the guys in this thread who don't feel comfortable asking girls out are just "boys who can shave."

If you don't want people to misinterpret your posts, use gentler language. You can't say harsh things like that and expect nobody to get upset. The internets don't work like that.

Yuki, thanks for the reply, I do apologize for the poor wording of my original post. I should have posted the idea elsewhere so as to avoid the argument.

I guess the idea got caught in my mind, because I've recently seen a lot of justification of wrong ideas and attitudes in the name of personal comfort here on CAA and it just got to me. I guess seeing some people start blowing up over small things on the boards and on a few occasions this thread got me frustrated enough to start that rant. And start it in the wrong place.

I apologize to those I've offended with my post.

And just to make things clear if there's any misunderstanding still, I am ok with girls pursuing guys. I am totally ok with shy guys who need a lot of courage, I am ok with more assertive girls as well. What I am not ok with is people who justify a lack of personal growth in all areas on the basis of "it's not comfortable."

So now back to the topic, and a question...What was one of the weirdest ways you've been asked out/pursued?

[Yamamaya]

I'm a bit of a traditionalist. Does anyone else get weirded when say, a woman plays the role of Juliet in Romeo and Juliet? It just strikes me as quite odd.

I feel like posting this pic as I think it's relevant.



Traditionalism is neither a bad thing nor a good thing. The problem is when one insists that everyone follow their traditions and those who do not follow those traditions are going against the natural order.

[K. Ayato]

No one knows that better than Tevye.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

[TopazRaven]

So now back to the topic, and a question...What was one of the weirdest ways you've been asked out/pursued?

I've only ever been asked out twice in my entire life. Unless you count one guy asking me out several times over the past 5 years. I'm so glad he has a girlfriend now. Lol. Ahem, anyway, I think one of the most awkward was when this kid in class had his friend ask me out for him while he was sitting right behind me. He was shy apparantly. I nearly had a heart attack. I could hear them whispering about it since they where both sitting right behind me so instead of doing my school work I rested my head on my desk and pretended to be sick hoping they'd change their mind. Didn't work. To make that even more creepy the guy who asked me out for his friend liked me to, that's the guy I mentioned first who used to ask me out all the time. I seriously don't even get why the liked me. I'm quite beastly.

[shooraijin]

Nothing wrong with traditionalism I guess, but...I don't know too many guys who would refuse if the woman he really loved asked him to marry her.

Actually, I would be amazingly freaked out by that, even if I did like the person in question.

[That Dude]

I've only ever been asked out twice in my entire life. Unless you count one guy asking me out several times over the past 5 years. I'm so glad he has a girlfriend now. Lol. Ahem, anyway, I think one of the most awkward was when this kid in class had his friend ask me out for him while he was sitting right behind me. He was shy apparantly. I nearly had a heart attack. I could hear them whispering about it since they where both sitting right behind me so instead of doing my school work I rested my head on my desk and pretended to be sick hoping they'd change their mind. Didn't work. To make that even more creepy the guy who asked me out for his friend liked me to, that's the guy I mentioned first who used to ask me out all the time. I seriously don't even get why the liked me. I'm quite beastly.

That is pretty weird. I'm glad that something like that has never happened to me. It sounds super awkward.

One of the weird ones for me was this time back when I was working at Panda Express when I was a teen and these two girls came up to me and instead of asking for food they both asked me out at the same time. Needless to say it was kinda weird, especially since I never had seen them before that time...Anyway, they gave me a number to call them at, and I said I would, and I did, but they didn't answer and I threw away the number.