What To Do With Bad Images In Mangas?

[chibiphonebooth]

..sooo when did this thread turn into ' I'm attracted to this sort of body part"? XDD

[minakichan]

Ten posts ago, give or take?

[Tsukuyomi]

Hee hee, that's tight, Tarny ^^ Yes, that is so true ^__^

..sooo when did this thread turn into ' I'm attracted to this sort of body part"? XDD

I think I counted 7 post ago XDD

Well, we could go back to disposing of people xD;

[Nate]

Nothing in that region has the lovely delicate firmness, the soft yet supple strength of collarbones and hands for me.

So, so, so, so tempted to respond. So tempted. BUT I MUST RESIST.

I love lamp.

Do you really love the lamp or are you just saying it because you saw it?

[Mave]

Censorship: Generally tolerant of it, annoying as it can be. But hey, we complain that there's too much sex and violence in our entertainment and also complain when they censor it all off. I just don't read a comic if I can't stand the content.

I've never *sharpied* a comic book but have no issues doing it either since you now own the book, not the artist. Frankly, I doubt the artist cares as long as they have your money but do feel free to do as you please.

That is actually the defining line between nudity and pornography, is the depiction of sex. Unless sex is present, it cannot be pornography.

Where can we get some official definition of pornography? Isn't a naked girl looking seductively at you and positioned in a way to place focus on certain parts of her body considered pornography? Yes, there's no sex involved but the intent is to sexually excite. Orrrr...did you mean that depiction of sex include the way the girl is looking at you or the way she's showing off certain parts of her body or the position she's lying/sitting or what? There's loads of those images categorized as pornographic material - Playboy being one of them. Hard porn, soft porn...whatever. Porn is porn.

Prince Asbel, not everyone is vulnerable to nudity the same way you are, so I'm not sure where this topic is going to go. However, we are in agreement that some of us are more vulnerable to nudity and it's our responsibility to inform each other of anime/manga content and most certainly, if we create images/comics/other forms of entertainment, we'll be more thoughtful of other fellow believers.

Hey folks, you can politely comment on what we artists create and it's up to us to take responsibility of reacting to your feedback. Or not. I don't think it's disrespect to share that our art bothers you. If not, we'll continue on with our merry ways, not knowing what impact we have on others. If I didn't get feedback, I would have drawn fanservice without realizing it. Seriously. As a female, drawing women in a certain way doesn't bother me. In fact, I consider that art. But to some brothers, they saw it differently. And thus, I hold back.

I like legs. Fried chicken legs ain't too bad too.

*a herd of CAA members all over the world picks up reading Berserk and realized that none of the characters are students or play sports. They flip over the pages, hoping that everyone will stop the horrible things they do to each other and start that nice table tennis tournament promised. An endless shriek of horror ensues as they approach FUN........*

[minakichan]

So, so, so, so tempted to respond. So tempted. BUT I MUST RESIST.

Ohohohoho. Guess I didn't bait it well enough XD

[OhElk]

So, so, so, so tempted to respond. So tempted. BUT I MUST RESIST.

Resist the bait! RESSSIIISST.

[chibiphonebooth]

Hey folks, you can politely comment on what we artists create and it's up to us to take responsibility of reacting to your feedback. Or not. I don't think it's disrespect to share that our art bothers you. If not, we'll continue on with our merry ways, not knowing what impact we have on others. If I didn't get feedback, I would have drawn fanservice without realizing it. Seriously. As a female, drawing women in a certain way doesn't bother me. In fact, I consider that art. But to some brothers, they saw it differently. And thus, I hold back.

QFT.

i feel the same way. Drawing women doesnt bother me at all. I also consider it art. In fact, drawing women is super easy for me, and i draw them a lot. XD just cause they are the easiest figure.

But what about people perusing to be artists? They go to college, and in the courses they are supposed to sketch out the human body. That means a real, live person is standing in front of a class- nude. But this is for education purposes. there is a reason they do it, because the best way to learn to draw the human figure is to practice without any clothes getting in the way, you know? artists have been doing that for the longest time.

[Fish and Chips]

*a herd of CAA members all over the world picks up reading Berserk and realized that none of the characters are students or play sports. They flip over the pages, hoping that everyone will stop the horrible things they do to each other and start that nice table tennis tournament promised. An endless shriek of horror ensues as they approach FUN........*

How epic would it be if Berserk was also a high school comedy drama.

Not instead of. Also.

[Shao Feng-Li]

QFT.

i feel the same way. Drawing women doesnt bother me at all. I also consider it art. In fact, drawing women is super easy for me, and i draw them a lot. XD just cause they are the easiest figure.

But what about people perusing to be artists? They go to college, and in the courses they are supposed to sketch out the human body. That means a real, live person is standing in front of a class- nude. But this is for education purposes. there is a reason they do it, because the best way to learn to draw the human figure is to practice without any clothes getting in the way, you know? artists have been doing that for the longest time.

Is it important to know how to draw all the body parts? Does one need to know how to draw that?

That's always been on my mind. If I ever go to an art school, I might have to deal with that sort of situation :\ Though, I can learn things on my own...

[Radical Dreamer]

Is it important to know how to draw all the body parts? Does one need to know how to draw that?

That's always been on my mind. If I ever go to an art school, I might have to deal with that sort of situation :\ Though, I can learn things on my own...

As an artist, I would actually say yes, it is important. Proper anatomy is essential if you want to draw humans properly with any semblance of proportion. Your drawing may not need to go into exact details, but mastering the shape and figure of the human body is important if you want to be able to realistically portray humans.

[GeneD]

I have an art student friend who has had to draw a person in the nude in a class. She says she usually tries to find a more "modest" angle when she can.
But I agree with Radical Dreamer, that it's important to study the anatomy properly.

[Nate]

Isn't a naked girl looking seductively at you and positioned in a way to place focus on certain parts of her body considered pornography? Yes, there's no sex involved but the intent is to sexually excite.

Ah, but that's erotica. I'm speaking from a legal standpoint by the way. And despite what the more conservative Christians would say, Playboy is not porn of any type. I could explain the actual difference between softcore and hardcore but I think that's outside the realm of this thread, and I couldn't really explain in a way that would fit within forum rules.

Ohohohoho. Guess I didn't bait it well enough XD

Oh no no no. You baited it perfectly. It's just my desire to not get a strike or banned is stronger than your bait.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I always liked a pretty face.

The dictionary definition of "pornography" basically states "printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings."

I would say that the last bit of information there is important to note.

[mechana2015]

As an artist, I would actually say yes, it is important. Proper anatomy is essential if you want to draw humans properly with any semblance of proportion. Your drawing may not need to go into exact details, but mastering the shape and figure of the human body is important if you want to be able to realistically portray humans.

Exactly. If one neglects proper knowledge of anatomy you can end up with some rather embarassingly awkward issues in artwork... especially if you're trying to work in a realist style, or at least semi-realist.

Avoiding parts of the body as an artist is like ignoring social context as a writer. Sure you can do it, but it damages the works ability to engage the viewer/reader and detatches it from reality, typically to the detriment of the concept.

[Maledicte]

Is it important to know how to draw all the body parts? Does one need to know how to draw that?

That's always been on my mind. If I ever go to an art school, I might have to deal with that sort of situation :\ Though, I can learn things on my own...

I know in life drawing, when it comes to drawing the genital area, most of us just leave it blank or roughly sketch it in, and focus on the legs, chest or arms. We just don't feel like drawing it. And some people just don't feel like drawing nipples, either. (I tend to draw them, for proportion purposes.) So, no, you don't NEED to draw that, but it IS important to draw everything else. If you can't draw the bare body correctly, how can you expect to make it move convincingly, or draw the clothing on top of it accurately?

Though I'm sure, if you request it, the model can wear a bathing suit or something.

[Syreth]

This isn't meant to instigate debate, but I think that it's relevant:

In the gospels, when Jesus says, "Whoever looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery in his heart," (paraphrase) the Greek word for "adultery" is "pornos." I'm not a Greek scholar by any means, but I find the connection interesting.

[Nate]

In the gospels, when Jesus says, "Whoever looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery in his heart," (paraphrase) the Greek word for "adultery" is "pornos." I'm not a Greek scholar by any means, but I find the connection interesting.

Not relevant, as the word pornography has a different origin.

The word derives from the Greek πορνογραφία (pornographia), which derives from the Greek words πόρνη (porne, "prostitute"), γράφω (grapho, "to write or record"), and the suffix -ία (-ia, meaning "state of", "property of", or "place of"), thus meaning "a place to record prostitutes".

[minakichan]

Is it important to know how to draw all the body parts? Does one need to know how to draw that?

Yes, so that we don't draw one breast instead of two =/

I'm of the opinion that anything one might want to draw for anatomy can be done perfectly if the model is in a tight bikini or underwear, but whatever. It's not like the difference between skimpy swimsuit and nudity is colossal.

The dictionary definition of "pornography" basically states "printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings."

I don't believe in dictionaries.

In my school bookshop, I found a little book entitled "Porn for Women" or something like that. I flipped through it; it was basically a full-color photobook of (fully-clothed, I believe) men doing random things like cooking for women, drawing bubble baths for them, doing laundry, etc. I don't even know what to think of that.

[Raiden no Kishi]

You should read what I said more clearly. I did not say nudity is inherently wrong, and I didn't assume it as axiomatic.

Actually, it is you who needs to read more carefully. If you read my post accurately, you will notice that I say you are asserting that all nudity IN ART is wrong. This is the assertion you made. Address what I actually said.

As far as a Biblical command against nudity goes, that's been addressed sufficiently by others for me.

.rai//

[Mr. SmartyPants]

[quote="minakichan (post: 1224212)"]In my school bookshop, I found a little book entitled "Porn for Women" or something like that. I flipped through it]
ROFL, that's great.

[Tsukuyomi]

This isn't meant to instigate debate, but I think that it's relevant:

In the gospels, when Jesus says, "Whoever looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery in his heart," (paraphrase) the Greek word for "adultery" is "pornos." I'm not a Greek scholar by any means, but I find the connection interesting.

Yup, "Whoever", meaning that person who's doing the looking. Is it right to punish the women for causing the man to look at her with lustful eyes?

Hmmm, could always do what UC said. Make two versions of everything. A good and bad one, but that may cause the rise in manga/anime prices ^^; Don't ask for what you can't handle

[minakichan]

Yup, "Whoever", meaning that person who's doing the looking. Is it right to punish the women for causing the man to look at her with lustful eyes?

Maybe if she's presenting herself in a way that deliberately attempts to instill lust.

Whoops, I think I just justified burkas.

[Shao Feng-Li]

As an artist, I would actually say yes, it is important. Proper anatomy is essential if you want to draw humans properly with any semblance of proportion. Your drawing may not need to go into exact details, but mastering the shape and figure of the human body is important if you want to be able to realistically portray humans.

If not knowing/leaving out a detail or two causes y'all to disproportion everything else...

Really though, I do understand what you're saying. Makes sense enough.

[Sparrowhawk]

My post is answering the original post of this thread (saying that in case there is an ongoing conversation about something different).

If you and your sister don't feel awkward about it, I say your idea is just fine. I personally just don't buy the manga - mostly because of what people might think of me than any personal struggle (not saying I don't struggle with lust) because at any time on tv something, say, a Victoria Secret commercial can come on, and though they are legally "covered" they acting and looking erotically. Things like this, sadly, have desensetized me so much that manga nudity for me is not a struggle - but because of the reason, thats nothing to brag about.

Now I did happen to notice some people talking about the beauty of the body. Here is my two cents, and not by any means saying that those who disagree with me are wrong, its just how I look at it.

1. In our fallen world that beauty, which it truly is, should be reserved for solely a husband and wife because in our fallen nature, most people (particularly guys) will struggle with lust - not saying that they are lusting instead of seeing the beauty - they can consciously be doing both, even trying to banish the lustful thoughts to simply admire the beauty - but normally guys fail at that.

2.Most of it is not intended to be beautiful but simply incite lust. Normally creators of erotic art will use the excuse of the beauty of the human body to get away with things. In our day and age where pleasure is everything and true beauty is rarely thought about, "the body is beautiful" line is simply a gimmick to get away with making things they knno are morally wrong and/or untasteful.

Like I said, that just my view on it - at least the first reason is just my opinion - i am pretty sure that the second reason is pretty accurate.

[ShiroiHikari]

I would also like to point out that there is a difference between lust and plain ol' regular sexual attraction.

According to the dictionary, lust is:

1. intense sexual desire or appetite.
2. uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.

These things are obviously a problem. Normal sexual attraction is just that-- normal. Thinking a woman is attractive isn't lust. I don't think Jesus was saying that it's a sin to be sexually attracted to somebody. That's how God made us. The problem is when we let those desires get out of control.

[Debitt]

[quote="ShiroiHikari (post: 1224235)"]I would also like to point out that there is a difference between lust and plain ol' regular sexual attraction.

According to the dictionary, lust is:

1. intense sexual desire or appetite.
2. uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite]
Definitely something worth taking into consideration. *awards many points to this post*

[Tsukuyomi]

[quote="ShiroiHikari (post: 1224235)"]I would also like to point out that there is a difference between lust and plain ol' regular sexual attraction.

According to the dictionary, lust is:

1. intense sexual desire or appetite.
2. uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite]

[SIZE="3"]The problem is when we let those desires get out of control.[/SIZE]

"We" meaning the one who views it in such a way, right? This is all leading to the same place. That we should take responsibility for what we view

[Syreth]

[quote="Nate (post: 1224210)"]Not relevant, as the word pornography has a different origin.

The word derives from the Greek π]
The words appear to have the same root in the Greek, but that's just my amateur opinion.

And, concerning Christians, I think that both sides, artist and viewer, have a level of responsibility.

If someone stumbles because of indiscretion in what he/she views, that person did not make the best choice.

If an artist is indifferent to the weaknesses of others, and thus causes others to stumble because they choose not to care about their spirituality, I don't think that they made the best choice either. This might mean less artistic freedom for the person who chooses to care, but just because you can do something and get away with it doesn't always make it the best decision.

[CAAOutkast]

Ah, but that's erotica. I'm speaking from a legal standpoint by the way. And despite what the more conservative Christians would say, Playboy is not porn of any type. I could explain the actual difference between softcore and hardcore but I think that's outside the realm of this thread, and I couldn't really explain in a way that would fit within forum rules.

Playboy is still wrong to look at,no matter what you say. All forms of porn are sins Remember Porn and Playboy are tools of our Enemy,and Not tools of God.