M-rated Games

[Nate]

Suppose that I am forced to kill a Black Widow Spider that is in my house. The Black Widow Spider's target is me, and I have nothing that'll safely enable me to move the spider to another location. Basically, if I do not kill it, I will be bitten. Also, when I kill it, people will praise me for killing such a dangerous spider. I can also kill the mailman that is making his runs. Which is morally reprehensible?

Not a good example.

1. God gave humans dominion over animals. While that doesn't mean we can randomly slaughter animals just for the heck of it, it does make an analogy between killing a human and killing an animal not work so well.

2. The Black Widow spider is dangerous. The mailman making his runs is not. Now if the mailman making his runs was carrying a shotgun with him, then maybe you would be justified in killing him. But as it stands the spider is dangerous and the mailman is not, so if you're asking which is morally reprehensible, killing something that is not dangerous as opposed to something that is, obviously killing something that is not dangerous is morally reprehensible.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

So then how is that any different from stomping on dangerous enemies in Mario?

Edit: Good lord, I can't believe I'm debating over video games...

[Gabriel 9.0]

So then how is that any different from stomping on dangerous enemies in Mario?

Edit: Good lord, I can't believe I'm debating over video games...

Lol:lol:. I know what you mean Smarty Pants. This is rather sad and should come to a close. Its sad enough seeing unbelievers try to debate with us, but when our own kind does so, that is just sad. ( not referring to you Smartypants) Speaking in general.

[Shao Feng-Li]

http://www.tensionbreaker.com/2008/04/celebrating-30-years-of-video-games.html

[Gabriel 9.0]

Now that is just rich...... Its no wonder why so many kids are innocent of the actual real world around them. Ha....

[Nate]

So then how is that any different from stomping on dangerous enemies in Mario?

Hmm. Okay, you have a point there. I concede defeat on that point, but I still think society's definitions of what constitutes acceptable violence are a bit off-base.

[blkmage]

Any mature content in a game needs to be examined within the context of the game. Violence in games seems pointless without any information about the motivations or circumstances surrounding it. For instance, it's a lot less controversial if I shoot a Stormtrooper in the face than if I shoot a guerilla fighter in the face. Same amount of violence, different context.

[uc pseudonym]

This is winding down, which is fine, but there's one point that is far too important to be left alone.

Not necessarily their fault though. Which brings up a point. How come it hurts you when an enemy walks into you, but it doesn't hurt an enemy for you to walk into them?

The answer is, of course, "A wizard did it."

I always thought you were supposed to assume that they were attacking you somehow (I don't know, biting) and that the game just didn't show it. At least that's what I did as a child.

[Kintaro]

I know this thread is a week old so I apologize for bringing it back up, but, I'd like to point out that The ESRB system is just retarded in general, they don't actually play the games, they just watch the trailers. I've played games that deserve the M rating that are E (Spanish for Everyone for the DS, seriously if you don't believe me go look it up XD), and games that are M that deserve the E (Team Fortress 2) It proves nothing. Someone who decides if the game is something there kid should be allowed to play by rating is a fool, imo. it's much more intelligent to look into it yourself. However, Jack Thompson would probably disagree with me, about TF2 not deserving M though lol.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

First off, Kintaro. You are incorrect. The ESRB by having game publishers submit a video to the ESRB features the most objectionable content that the game portrays, then they rate the game accordingly. They don't just "watch a trailer" at all.

Second off, Spanish for Everyone is a fluke. There is no real objectionable content in there besides the potentiality for there being sexual and racist remarks. Even then, the game was shovelware and nobody bought it. Using that game as an example is pointless.

THIRD, Team Fortress 2... an E rating? Woahwoahwoah, you're talking to the biggest TF2 geek on all of CAA and I'm totally going to disagree with you. I will gladly point out everything in TF2 that makes it deserve an M-rating.

Heavy Heavy HEAVY violence. People get burned to death by the pyro, people get blown up to bits (literally) by the demoman and soldier, people get stabbed in the back by spies, and people get absolutely pwnd by the Heavy.

There's some language in the game. No F-Bombs are dropped or anything, but the Scout, Sniper, and Engineer all say things that could concern a parent

There is blood. Lots of it. There are also dismembered bodyparts flying all over the place. You see this frequently in the death freeze-cam. Heck, just play for five minutes and you'll see enough bodies explode to bits.

When playing online, people can spray nasty pictures (Like gay porn. Yup. People do it.) and say whatever they want over the mic.

Maybe you think that just because the style of the game is cartoony means it merits an E. That's most definitely not the case. Valve had no intention of making this an "E-Rated" video game. Yes they wanted the violence extremely cartoonish, humorous, and stylized, but the violence is still extremely heavy.

I don't know why you dislike the ESRB. I find it a good guide for parents on what to buy, especially since many of them are ignorant of just how much content can even be in a videogame. It's not foolish to check up on a ESRB rating at all. In fact, on the back of the gameboxes, it even tells you WHAT the game features. (Strong Language, Violence, Gore, etc) It would be more foolish to purchase Grant Theft Auto IV for your seven year old son. While I can sort of agree that it's good to look into it yourself, not all parents have the time to sit down and play every single videogame to find what objectionable content there may be in each game.

Perhaps you ought to lay off the TF2 for a while. =)

[DarkSun]

Second off, Spanish for Everyone is a fluke. There is no real objectionable content in there besides the potentiality for there being sexual and racist remarks.

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=340518&postcount=36

so we decide to have fun doing it with double meaning jokes like Shrek movies

Proof of his validity:
http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=340322&postcount=30

[Kintaro]

First off, Kintaro. You are incorrect. The ESRB works when game publishers submit a video to the ESRB features the most objectionable content that the game portrays, then they rate the game accordingly.

Second off, Spanish for Everyone is a fluke. There is no real objectionable content in there besides the potentiality for there being sexual and racist remarks.

THIRD, Team Fortress 2... an E rating? Woahwoahwoah, you're talking to the biggest TF2 geek on all of CAA and I'm totally going to disagree with you. I will gladly point out everything in TF2 that makes it deserve an M-rating.

Heavy Heavy HEAVY violence. People get burned to death by the pyro, people get blown up to bits (literally) by the demoman and soldier, people get stabbed in the back by spies, and people get absolutely pwnd by the Heavy.

There's some language in the game. No F-Bombs are dropped or anything, but the Scout certainly has a dirty mouth. The sniper also has somewhat of a foul mouth.

There is blood. Lots of it. There are also dismembered bodyparts flying all over the place. You see this frequently in the death freeze-cam.

When playing online, people can spray nasty pictures and say whatever they want over the mic.

Maybe you think that just because the style of the game is cartoony means it merits an E. That's most definitely not the case. Valve had no intention of making this an "E-Rated" video game. Yes they wanted the violence extremely cartoonish, humorous, and stylized, but the violence is still extremely heavy.

#1: publishers lie about content or show content that is lies to decide the rating for themselves, ESRB is still retarded.

#2: Spanish for everyone is not a fluke. I've met some of the guys who work for the company who admitted it was intentional.

#3: You're the second biggest TF2 geek now :P, also, the box for TF2 says: Online interactions not rated. therefore, nothing in TF2, besides the menu screen, and Commentary modes are available to rate. a few minor swears, the violence consisting of a massive explosion of really fake blood when you die, which makes it more humorous then anything. there are other ESRB rated games on the market with minor swearing, larger scale violence, and they're still rated E. therefore, TF2 merits E.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

#1: publishers lie about content or show content that is lies to decide the rating for themselves, ESRB is still retarded.

The only publisher that has really lied was Rockstar. From what I've seen, all games and their respected ratings are accurate. What is said on the back of each game box is what I have seen in games. I don't understand how the ESRB is "Retarded". Perhaps you're just mad because your mom wouldn't let you buy GTA IV? XD

#2: Spanish for everyone is not a fluke. I've met some of the guys who work for the company who admitted it was intentional.

Yes it is but it's shovelware and the developers never took themselves seriously. (I happen to have spoken with one of the developers myself) They mostly did it for kicks. How the ESRB miss this one, I have no idea. Either way, it's like ONE example.

#3: You're the second biggest TF2 geek now

Would you like to compare stats?
http://steamcommunity.com/id/RicoP90/stats/TF2
54/56 achievements gained. Have the Blutslauger, the Krietzkrieg, and the Ubersaw. About 120 hours of total play-time logged.

also, the box for TF2 says: Online interactions not rated. therefore, nothing in TF2, besides the menu screen, and Commentary modes are available to rate. a few minor swears, the violence consisting of a massive explosion of really fake blood when you die, which makes it more humorous then anything. there are other ESRB rated games on the market with minor swearing, larger scale violence, and they're still rated E. therefore, TF2 merits E.

Hang on... just because heavy violence is portrayed humorously means it's perfectly okay? Oh, and of course it's fake blood... you can't put real blood in a videogame. Duh. With all due respect, I am inclined to think that you're just some FPS-Obsessed kid on some sort of quasi-vigilante defense-spree. Would you also please name some games that are more violent than TF2 that have E-ratings?

I think that most of us will agree that these pictures do NOT merit an E-rating. The ESRB was accurate to rate this game with an M. If you think otherwise... then you're either lying or you're probably not thinking straight.

[Kintaro]

Ok, we can agree to disagree, I don't really feel like arguing. I'm sorry if I sounded rude earlier, I was ticked off and vented here instead. Sure I'd like to compare stats, I havn't been playing as long as some people, so I havn't gotten to do as much as some people, please ignore the obviously ridiculous stats, that's because I accidentally found that server that messes up your stats because of super speed.


Most assists:
22 (as Medic)
Most captures:
17 (as Soldier)

these ones that seem slightly questionable are actually true.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/KintaroTheBrave/stats/TF2

I have all the achievements except for With friends like these, which I don't have because all of my friends are in different time zones lol

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Lol you farmed for your medic achievements.

Yeah, me too.

[Nate]

Okay, so you don't like the ESRB. The question is, what would be a better system? Games are completely different from movies, you can't compare the MPAA to the ESRB. They're different types of media. So what can you do?

Asking the ESRB to play completely through a game to find the content fails for three very important reasons.

1. The people on the ESRB are probably not gamers, thus asking them to play through a game would be an exercise in futility. Besides, what about games like Morrowind, that are 150+ hours? Do you really expect them to play that long? What about games like World of Warcraft that literally don't end? Would you like it if Team Fortress 2 had been delayed for another year so the ESRB could play every corner of the game?

2. Playing a game from start to finish would still not reveal all the content. Going hand in hand with the "ESRB isn't gamers" comment, most of them wouldn't explore every nook and cranny like a real gamer. Also, what about the Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas "Hot Coffee" mod? They could have played the game for ten years and never found it because it could only be accessed with a Gameshark or other cheat module.

3. "We should have rated this game three months ago but we can't beat this part!"

So then what's the only solution? If the ESRB can't find all the content, who can? The people who made the game, of course. But playing through the game in front of the ESRB would take too long...see the comment about Morrowind and the 150+ hours. Therefore the most logical step is to show the most objectionable parts, and have the ESRB go off of that, similar to how a movie works.

#1: publishers lie about content or show content that is lies to decide the rating for themselves, ESRB is still retarded.

If the publishers lie about content, how is that the ESRB's fault? If I tell you there's a million dollars in this box, and you stick your hand in and there's a poisonous snake, is it your fault for believing me? No, it's my fault for putting the snake there in the first place.

The system is flawed, sure. It's not perfect. The MPAA isn't perfect either, there have been a lot of movies that got re-rated. In fact, there's basically no way Transformers should have gotten a PG-13, it should have been R. People make mistakes, and if gaming companies lie, they're the problem, not the ESRB. In fact, Take-Two DID pay for their mistake with the Hot Coffee mod, with a lot of class-action lawsuits.

So again, if you don't like the ESRB, that's your prerogative, but it's undeniably the only system that works in a real world scenario.

[Kintaro]

I said I don't feel like arguing. You can hold your opinion, it was my mistake for posting on this thread in the first place.